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The People’s District: 5 Reasons Gay is Not the New Black

Here are five strong but simple reasons why “…there is a difference” between the issues surrounding the civil rights movement and those surrounding the fight for certain LGBTQ rights.

Historical accuracy puts us in a position to present intelligent claims instead of being a passionate person that everyone ignores because of their ignorance. Nevertheless, when pop culture starts to set trends of ignorance, you get claims like Michael Gross’s–“gay is the new black.”

And you get Macklemore rhyming:

Gay is synonymous with the lesser/ it’s the same hate that’s caused wars/ from Religion, gender, to skin color, the complexion of your pigment/ The same fight that led people to walk outs and sit ins/It’s human rights for everybody, there is no difference.

And it all sounds great, vogue, for-the-people–until you look at the historical realities behind the claims.

Fredrick Douglass in Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave, paints a clear picture of the plights faced by African American slaves as he writes:

It is a common custom…to part children from their mothers at a very early age. Frequently, before the child has reached its twelfth month, its mother is taken from it, and hired out on some farm a considerable distance off…For what this separation is done, I do not know, unless it be to hinder the development of the child’s affection toward its mother and to blunt and destroy the natural affection of the mother for the child. This is the inevitable result (pg. 17).

Those who would fight in the Civil Rights movement would fight against the effects of these societal malpractices. The legacies of these broken families had forged the DNA for how African-Americans were viewed then and during the civil rights movement.

And even when the emancipation proclamation happened in 1863, yes slaves were constitutionally free, but they weren’t institutionally, culturally, or lawfully free–far from being seen as people deserving equality.

So to be frank, there has never been a time in our society–never will be–where homosexual men/women from birth will know of the horrors of being separated from their mothers and the generational degradation it perpetuates in one’s identity. You could write 95 reasons why it’s historically insulting to the legacy and current identity of African Americans to call “gay the new black” and consider Macklemore’s lyrics remotely true.

Nevertheless, for the sake of this article, here are five strong but simple reasons why “…there is a difference” between the issues surrounding the civil rights movement and those surrounding the fight for certain LGBTQ rights. Here’s why the two don’t even belong in the same discussion:

  1. You have never seen–and won’t see–“heterosexual only” and “gay only” water fountains, diners, buses, schools, in light of 75 years of oppressive Jim Crow laws.

    Homosexual men/women will never see a society that makes it a point–IN EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE–to remind them that they’re lesser in creation and not deserving of life’s joys. The homosexual man/woman has never seen this day and never will.

  2. You have not–and won’t–see homosexuals snatched away from their families at birth for the purpose of division and dehumanization.

    Some may think this is unfair because it deals with something that happened pre-civil rights, but historians agree that this was the root of all that was combatted during the Civil Rights era. Society has never been set up to divide and conquer the homosexual from birth.

  3. Homosexual men/women have never endured a slave trade for generations and witnessed their ancestors dying by the numbers during a “Middle Passage” and being sold for raw goods.

    The Middle Passage is part of the African American legacy as it brought Africans to America–as property. Many died during the Middle Passage; and those that made it, with strong communal ties, were sold for raw material. They were seen not as a person but as valuable property at best–their value being determined by the trader, auctioneer, and families with the highest bid. Homosexual men/women in their struggle of “inequality” will never know of a day, month, year or decades that define them or their culture in this way.

  4. Homosexuals have never been–or will be considered–non-citizens by laws of the United States that rob them of inalienable rights.

    Dread Scott sued the federal courts for his freedom but lost 7-2 due to the fact that he, nor any other person of African ancestry, could claim citizenship in the United States. Homosexuals will never know a day where they are not considered citizens of the United States.

  5. Homosexuals will never face a societal norm that allows–and even promotes–them to be beaten because they are seen as property and treated like cattle with scripture as a basis for justification.

    Frederick Douglass writes on these common atrocities:

    I have seen him tie up a lame young woman, and whip her with a heavy cowskin upon her naked shoulders, causing the warm red blood to drip; and, in justification of the bloody deed, he would quote this passage of Scripture–“He that knoweth his master’s will, and doeth it not, shall be beaten with many stripes (pg. 57).”

    Homosexuals will never know of such an existence.

In closing, historical, anthropological, and philosophical honesty should lead us to see that–contrary to Macklemore and Michael Gross’s assessment–“gay will never be the new black and there’s a stark difference”.

Though perceived hypocrisy and inequality has affected homosexual men/women and Africans–and continues to–their effects on homosexuals will never compare to their effects on African-Americans. The displacement of African lives to American soil had one purpose—economic progression through slavery.

To compare the struggle of homosexual men/women to that of African Americans is more than offensive. It’s wiping out 300 years of historical fortitude that saw a people fight to maintain the identity-legacy that was stolen from them on day one.

[UPDATE: Sho Baraka follows up with the author Adam Thomason in a Forth District Untamed interview. Hear more of Adam’s thoughts and reasons for writing “5 Reasons Gay is Not the New Black” here.]

Screen Shot 2014-01-29 at 9.41.06 AMAdam Thomason is the CEO/co-founder of Collision Records an indie Hip-hop label. He led the branding and team that saw their first four retail albums debut on billboard. Adam has his undergrad in Fashion Design and is pursuing his Doctorate in Education.

 

 

 

NOTE: We would like to do our best, any time an opinion article is posted (“The People’s District”), to start a conversation that will be helpful and constructive. However, it’s become clear to us that we did not frame this article in that way encouraged that. And our goal at Forth District is to create a place where we can interact with people who don’t hold the same beliefs or opinions that we do. But because interaction on this topic has become more hostile than helpful, we have decided to disable comments on this article. If you would like submit a response to this article that is well thought out and helpful, please send it to us at info@forthdistrict.com. We would love publish it here.

  • Chris Styles the MC

    These are excellent points. In addition, homosexuals can in fact hide that they are gay. It’s impossible to hide skin color. I appreciate this post and agree with it.

    • adamdavid

      …That is part of the 95 reasons, great insight Chris.

      • Timothy Holmes

        where can the 95 reason be found

        • ADThomason

          …the 95 reasons, now 90, they are in my possessions–all historical reasons. This is not a matter of personal perspective, but History that makes its way historically back to England. Guys like William Wilberforce and the like who devoted their lives changing the way humanity–the known colonial world treated an ethnic people. So before slavery reached US soil what I am talking traces hundreds of years before the first slave was traded in the US. These five reasons where a conversational appetizer.

          • strghtandnrrw

            Looking forward to the rest. thanks

    • Forreal

      That’s a pro and a con. Typically when someone is harassed because of their skin color, they can at least fall back upon their closest family members, friends, and church for support and understanding. When someone is gay, the harassment often comes FROM their friends, family, or church. Often times their mother and father don’t accept them for who they are. If the harassed individual doesn’t live in a larger metropolis, there are very few resources for them to reach out to for support. Additionally, hiding ones true self isn’t as liberating as you would claim it to be. Lastly, this article makes it sound as though there are gay people and there are racial minorities and completely ignores the fact that the two aren’t mutually exclusive.

      • Actually

        Still, in general, the homosexuals of today are much better off than the slaves and segregated African Americans of the past. The point which Adam was attempting to make was that these are two fundamentally different struggles, and it’s disrespectful to link the two together in attempt to advance the agenda of one.

        Besides, this movement is but inches away from its apex. Our generation will most likely be the one to legalize gay marriage. Advances in society which took centuries for African Americans to achieve are either already enjoyed by or in the process of being attained by homosexuals. By no means am I saying that that’s wrong. Quite the contrary. All I’m saying is that the two are different, and it downplays the gravity of the Civil Rights movement to describe them as if they were the same. Furthermore, to this day, African Americans are still feeling the effects of slavery and segregation. Centuries of institutionalized racial discrimination did more than affect African Americans psychologically and physically, but it put them at a severe economic disadvantage, throwing them headlong into a generational cycle of poverty whose effects can be most effectively measured in statistical disparities between literacy rates, college graduation & attendance, and incarceration. This is arguably worse than any teasing, exclusion, or beating, because it persists from generation to generation, and it is still the number one factor which garrisons the socioeconomic stratification between these today. Moreover, it greatly contributes to the widening income gap, which in turn affects all Americans. They may not be mutually exclusive, but they are significantly distinct.

        • Forreal

          Heaven forbid we learn from the past. When you say, “it’s disrespectful to link the two together in attempt to advance the agenda of one” are you trying to say that LGBT folks should not attempt to learn from or follow the lead of those civil right strategies and approaches that have been successful in the past? Are you suggesting that LGBT folks haven’t suffered long enough to fight for or earn their equality? The Civil Rights movement — which continues today for both racial minorities and LGBT individuals — is the same movement. The goal of this movement is to obtain equal rights and social justice for everyone. This includes equal rights for racial minorities. This includes equal rights for LGBT individuals. Period. The fact that thousands of people are denied hundreds of state and federal benefits including the ability to marry the person ones love (a long recognized civil right) means the civil rights movement isn’t over. Attempting to fracture the movement by suggesting that one group deserves civil rights, while another doesn’t yet — or needs to struggle to earn civil rights through a different means is simply ridiculous.

    • Jester

      This is a positive? Why would anyone want to hide who they are and live in fear? Did the Jews have it good because they could “hide” their ethnicity in Nazi germany by faking their name? You miss the point dude. People shouldn’t have to hide.

  • Dan Duncan

    I think it would be interesting to ask a gay black man his experience…I agree with this article, and love the perspective from a historical pov, but also feel their is a legitimate fight for legal rights for lgbt…

    • ADThomason

      …The article is not arguing from an “a-la-carte” perspective, but from one that takes the full legacy–historically into perspective. What you are talking about on the backend of your comment is another road that I did not travel down.

      • Dan Duncan

        Agreed just making the point on the topic! Great job btw!

        • ADThomason

          Thanks brother, though we have not met, I respect your insight on the culture–read many of your post.

      • Tevin

        I feel this is an “a-la-carte” perspective, typical of the African-American Church or religious right. Lets pick and choose which sin we want to focus and beat to dead. Interesting article but as Ph.D. candidate and American Government scholar. Interesting perspective…

        • ADThomason

          …Tevin, I would sincerely disagree on the point that this is typical as I am talking about an existence and not moments; though I picked out 5 points that can be perceived as “a-la-carte” it is not, because they are pulled from the societal existence. I do not see how the full understanding of a historic scope is “typical”.

        • Dan Duncan

          Hey Tevin, super thankful for your thoughts and I to want to check out the leader you referred too but let’s be fair about using generalizations in this “living room” you offered some great thoughts but to both you and Adam this is an open discussion and not a place to win and lose an argument(just a reminder) everyone has a voice here…there are a million other places to do yell at someone

          • Tevin

            Thanks Dan… Didn’t mean to generalize…

        • Dan Duncan

          Also are always looking for different thought through perspectives if you would ever like to write please send us a message at info@forthdistrict.com

    • Tevin

      The two struggles are different but there are similarities in the overall quest for equality. The similarities are present in the civil rights movement, not more so form the historical perspective of slavery. Examples of unfair persecution, GOD given rights denied, unfair/unequal treatment, unfair arrests, death, discrimination. The biggest argument as been that the African-American community should understand the plight of discrimination, alienation and offer support to the LBGT community regardless of religious beliefs. Instead we are the biggest and loudest oppressors of the LBGT community. During the civil rights movement we all joined the fight Christians, Muslims, Buddhist and even the LBGT community. Many people don’t know that the driving force and chief organizer behind of the many activities of the Civil Rights Movement was an African-American Gay man Bayard Rustin. He was pushing for African-American and Gay rights but he was asked to step aside because he was gay and “they” the black church didn’t want his presence to take away from the quest for Civil Rights. This is where supports of the LBGT community find issue with the African-American community. (I hope I have been clear).

      • Timothy McPherson

        That’s an interesting point. I’d like to do some research on Bayard Rustin.

      • ADThomason

        Very familiar with Bayard Rustin but the nature of this article deals with a full view of history–world history. I put the “Middle Passage” to show that this existence was not just an American one to the known world, as UK was the heart for the American vein that displays the atrocities. Again the comparison is not justified in light of history when it comes to the African on US soil and before they were brought. Please see the full context.

        • iLogos

          But that is also the point that undoes all of this.

          First Gays are not saying what we are *going* through* is the same as what your *ancestors* are going through. This false assumption pretty much makes your entire article and position irrelevant.

          Second, by making it global you run against laws where it is illegal to be gay, act gay, admit you’re gay, raise children, or speak in advocacy for gays. Slaves and us, their descendants did not have to deal with those same laws, but the were social pressures an systemic bigotry that were in place to punish them/us for much of the same thing.

        • aurrevoirshoshanna

          If you’re going to come at it from the point of global history then the persecution of gays has been around for longer and is much more wide spread than the persecution of blacks. So if anything that hurts your argument rather than helping it.

    • BV

      It is worth noting that RedRev referred to “CERTAIN LBTGQ rights” (emphasis mine), not all LBTGQ rights. In a civil society such as ours, there is probably a good argument for saying that homosexuals should have equal access to benefits of our society that married couples enjoy. Tax breaks, employer benefits provided to married couples, etc. etc. etc. But that doesn’t mean that we have to expand the scope of the word “marriage” to encompass same-sex, monogamous, life-long (hopefully) relationships. This distinction seems to get lost these days, probably because, in my opinion, the end goal of the homosexual community (as a whole) is to have the US’s legal definition of marriage changed to encompass their relationships.

      I should also say that I’m not trying to put words in RedRev’s mouth. I only trying to interpret his use of the term “certain.”

      • iLogos

        Does a man own his wife? Can he beat her or rape her in this country and admit to it and no police arrest him and no court convict him? Nope. Why because marriage was redefined. Can people of two different religions or two different races get married? Yes. Why? Because marriage has been redefined.

        There is an institutionalized separation between Church and State in this nation and that means ALL marriages as recognized by the government are social, civil, secular contracts entered in by two adults. If you view marriage as a holy/sacred/religious act, then marriage has already been redefined. That argument has no logic to support it.

    • Leonce Crump

      Not-so-coincidentally I have, and their (40+ people polled) thought was the same. In fact they cited feeling a dual discrimination, with that of being African-American, and male, both historically and presently the more aggregious of the two.

  • Tyshan Broden

    The last sentence is the most powerful part of this whole piece. This is something that comes up all the time, esp when some feel that blacks are pulling the race card or that the oppression we still face doesnt exist anymore. Not to mention homosexuals will never be considered 3/5ths a person. Either way this is great. Glad you wrote this. I just heard Macklemore’s song last night and just heard Bizzle’s response. Im glad more people are speaking up about this ridiculous comparison.

    • ADThomason

      Thank you Tyshan for reading and seeing the full scope of what is written.

      • Staycalm91

        I’d like to bring up that 2 of your 5 points don’t really hold weight. Point 2 is false because will be introducing a bill next month that intends to do exactly that. Point 4 is super wrong as even in America, gays are only allowed to get married in 17 states. That’s definitely denial of rights. 38 of 55 African countries criminalize being gay and Uganda almost passed a bill which would allow the government to kills gays. This bill was only killed because Uganda heavily relies on Western aid and this bill would have destroyed Uganda economically. The fact of the matter is that in today’s society, gays and African-Americans both face discrimination and the two populations should work together to rise up.

        • Dan Duncan

          Staycalm! Love the name! Thankyou for being part of the conversation. If you are going to jump in, and we hope you will, when you say something like this is wrong because of a bill next month, please specify what bill, in what state, and what it says. This will help the conversation instead of just coming off like you are trying to dismantle Adams thoughts. Everyone has a right to share here and this is not just a christian site but a site for all thinkers, artists, and people. Please share anything you would like to say at info@Forthdistrict.com. Thanks!

          • sunnyside

            “Uganda almost passed a bill” Uganda is in Africa, it’s not a US state or territory.

          • http://dtaylordesigns.com/ The Almighty Ham

            Way to miss the point

        • Charlene Mozee

          How can two walk together unless they agree? I am not in agreement that my journey as an African-American and that of my ancestors before me is comparable to that of the homosexual community.

          • iLogos

            No one of the LGBT community is saying anything about your ancestors. That is always brought up by people like the author who are trying to distance and divide rather than find similarities and join together.

            We are still not treated equal. Black woman make the least amount of money professionally than any group, including openly gay white men and women. ALL oppressed people should stand together in common cause and fight for equal rights and equal treatment. Their struggle to be recognized as a human being worthy of respect and love and recognition for their accomplishments based on the character of their person than appearance, or orientation furthers ALL of us. If one of us isn’t free, none of us are. The laws that will protect them will protect all of us.

          • Daniel McClendon

            iLogos, what precisely are the laws protecting us from?

          • Forreal

            To compare means to find similarities. Similarities CAN be found between the struggle for racial equality and the struggle for LGBT Rights, so it IS possible to compare. It’s also possible to contrast as there are many differences. The civil rights experience that African Americans and other racial minorities went through during the 50s and 60s will always be THE Civil Rights Movement – capital T.C.R.M. But the fight for LGBT rights that is occurring today is a civil rights movement as well. Those who fought in the 50s and 60s for racial legal equality should be honored that effective strategies and approaches they used are once again being used for the fight for equality today.

          • Is Ig

            You are right. The slavery experience was among the worst in human history, but when there’s hurt and injustice, negative comparisons are not the way to go. It only highlights prejudices. I am sure the gentleman who wrote this piece know that homosexual have been discriminated, imprisoned and killed for who they are for thousands of years till this day around the world. To live a lie in suppression is not living, it is self imprisonment. Let’s not educate with hate.

        • Charlencia Taylor

          People cannot support what they do not believe. True Christians or any other culture who believe that homosexuality is wrong cannot fight for gay marriage or else we’re not being true to who we are. We can however unite and fight against bullying and hate. Yes, it’s true gays and blacks both face discrimination, and we can fight that together. But you cannot expect me to give up who I am and what I believe to achieve a result that you desire. That’s bigotry. If gays and people who support the LGBT community(I’m speaking generally here) cannot support and appreciate or even tolerate that my view on homosexuality is wrong, how on earth can they expect me and my Christian counterparts to support them against their injustices? I am going on record here for myself that injustice to me is not the fact that you cannot marry in whatever state you choose. Injustice to me according to this issue would be the utter mistreatment, bullying, abuse, and misrepresentation of people who identify with LGBT community and movement. I will support you in this injustice which is what I mentioned above even if you think that my thinking and beliefs are old-fashioned and legalistic. I love you all. I would be a fool if I didn’t because that would mean I hate my sister which I don’t. I can love her fully without supporting every decision that she makes which includes her decision to identify as a lesbian and pursue same sex relationships. (This last statement is for everybody) Do not lump everyone together who attached the label of “Christian” to their names. That my friend is stupid. You just cannot assume that especially if you have no idea what a Christian truly is. Labels aside and despite our differences and preferences which we’ll always have, how about we just get to know each other and learn to live together? Also, I invite all of you to tune in to my church’s podcasts or download the sermons for the month of February. My pastor is doing a month long series tilted “Our Gay Neighbor.” I invite the LGBT community to listen to true biblical points of view about engaging in today’s society and why we believe what we believe. I invite Christians to learn and be convicted on how we treat people that we know or suspect may be gay. We’re not perfect people, but we can learn how to love everyone better. And, we can see how Jesus did that for us on the cross.

          • aurrevoirshoshanna

            I’m curious, did you ASK your sister if it was her ‘decision’ to have lesbian feelings or are you simply assuming it was? There’s a big difference. I doubt it was a decision, although it IS a decision to purse any sort of relationship period. But then I would say put yourself in her shoes. What if you lived in a world where everyone was gay and you’re straight and you couldn’t help it? Then everyone told you even though you like men you should hide it. Or you should try to date women anyways. Does that sound like a good life to you? Then what if your sister told you she loved you but kept saying you being straight is a ‘choice’?

            Like really? Think about it. Why would she CHOOSE to be gay? Give me a list of the benefits you think persuaded her to do such a thing. So you think she ‘chose’ to be lesbian so she could get made fun of in school? So she could be called a dyke? So she could not be able to get married? So her own sister could say she loves her but in the same breath not accept the person that she loves? Do all of those sound like fun reasons to you to ‘choose’ to be gay? Also you have a very skewed view of what injustice really is. It was an injustice to not let women vote, it was an injustice to not let blacks vote, it was an injustice not to let blacks marry whites and it’s an injustice to not let men marry men and women marry women. There were people back in the day that thought it wasn’t Christian for blacks to marry whites so how are you any different from them? A denial of equal rights to ANYONE is an injustice, period. Regardless of your personal reason. All those racist white people back in the day thought they were doing the lord’s work when they were denying black people their equal rights and here you are today saying the same thing to gay people.

            Nobody expects you to give up who you are. What your sister does in the privacy of her bedroom has nothing to do with you unless she personally invites you. Men didn’t have to give up being men to support women’s rights. Whites didn’t have to give up being white to support black rights. Christians do not have to give up being Christians to support gay rights. It’s about what’s just and fair and that is equal rights for EVERYONE. When you use your power as a majority to restrict the rights of a minority THAT is an injustice. That is also exactly what Christians are doing but then you’ll turn around and say I love you sis, I just don’t think you’re equal to me and I don’t want you to have the same rights though… which is a whole new level of bigotry.

        • Ballet Brice Stephane Djedje

          I absolutely agree with what you said staycalm91. I am a black gay man. I actually disagree with the entire 5 points maybe because I am black and gay. My struggle is doubled.

    • Hobbes Deutsch Jr.

      The ways we have sex were criminalized in America. In some states it still is. We were thrown in jail for being ourselves. Over 100,000 of us wore pink triangles in Nazi Concentration camps and were systematically raped, tortured, and “scientifically” experimented on until we died.

      Better check your history books. They don’t teach a damn thing about Pink Triangles. Just Yellow Stars of David.

      • Dan Duncan

        The Nazi’s threw everyone that was not “Arian” in camps. Artists, Thinkers, Gays, Jews, Gypsies, Any Politician from a conquered country, and the list goes on. Not for a second discounting it, but if you were not blond hair blue eyed you probably were hated by the Nazi Regime.

        • aurrevoirshoshanna

          This is incorrect and doesn’t account for the fact that being Aryan* and some of the categories you listed are not mutually exclusive. If you were gay with blonde hair and blue eyes you were burned. Also they did not throw all Artists and Thinkers into the camps. Hitler was an artist before he was a politician and the Nazi regime favored aestheticism – just the Nazi kind. Also I’m sure there were Aryan Thinkers. How were you then not trying to discount what he was saying when the sole purpose of your comment was to detract from his comment saying gays suffered by saying well other people suffered too?

      • Tyshan Broden

        Sir, please dont miss the point here. Im black and Im female. You are a white male…what problems do you really have in America?? Please dont attack me for my statement because it is still true. The things the Nazi’s did in concentration camps didnt happen on American soil. Im not discounting the struggles of gays. The struggle is real and the mistreatment is completely unjust. I dont agree with it or support it. I do know that at the end of the day the things that were done to my ancestors and that is still happening to me today and the struggles my grandmother, parents, aunts and uncles went through simply because the color of their skin and the things I still go through because I was born black plus the things my children will go through because they will be black is still a completely different struggle.

        • Hobbes Deutsch Jr.

          Read up on your Queer American History. If you were caught having gay sex in the 70′s you could be jailed for years. Kind of puts being out as a disadvantage.

          The police would often have raids on gay bars where they would systematically beat the hell out of the patrons there. Black, Yellow, White didn’t matter. But hey, we hide so well, and we’re fags so we deserve it… Look up Bayard Rustin, then get back to me.

          • Tyshan Broden

            I’m not saying I don’t sympathize. I’m just saying the injustices done to blacks in America doesn’t compare to the struggles of gays. My whole cultural ethnic group’s identity was taken. I’m still disctinated against because the color of my skin and probably always will be. The social shift and acceptance of homosexuals is widening quickly and after this next generation passes the fight for justice will be an after thought as in comparison that is not the case for the black in America. No need to school me in history, which I LOVE. We just have to agree to disagree because at the end of the day you are a white male that has ancestory that has been the oppressor and has little knowledge of what it means for your whole ethnic group to be oppressed.

  • Timothy McPherson

    I can understand and sympathize that African-Americans have not been discriminated in the same way as the LGBT Community. This does not mean, however, that the LGBT community hasn’t been and is to this day still discriminated against.

    • Daniel McClendon

      I agree Timothy. I would also say I don’t think Adam would/is dismissing that fact either.

    • Charlene Mozee

      We are stating there is absolutely no sensible comparison to the journey experienced by African-Americans and homosexuals lifestyle.

    • strghtandnrrw

      The LBGT Community definitely has. The intent of this article is to derail the false claims that “Gay is the new black”. That claim is ludicrous and disrespectful at least as a new slogan for the LBGT community. As a man who has to look at the aftermath, effects that still remain from slavery, I take offense to Mr. Gross’s comment and Macklemores lyrics. The mistreatment of LBGT needs to be addressed as well as the mistreatment of any humans but the agenda needs to keep an honest perspective and not disrespect the history of others in an attempt to accomplish theirs. Thanks for your comment.

      • ADThomason

        Thank you for seeing the intent in which the article was written, great articulation.

        • strghtandnrrw

          Thanks AD

      • aurrevoirshoshanna

        ‘Gay is the New Black’ has not and never will be a slogan for the LGBT community. Just because one person said it does not make it a critical point in our platform. As a member of both the LGBT community and African American community I find this article ludicrous and disrespectful to the LGBT community. Not only that, I find it distasteful to compare the suffering of any one group to another in order to way the consequences and lasting effects – which is clearly what this article has set out to do. Macklemore’s lyrics are not the national anthem for gays and should not be taken as spoken word, especially considering he’s not even gay. So to take offense at his lyrics and then redirect it towards the gay community is preposterous.

        • Jabrel Rashad Thomas

          The point was not that just one person said it, or one “rapper” put it in a song. In different events held by the LGBT community people have actually taken this theme and ran with it, in large numbers too. Its not to say thst everyone feels this way but its has somewhat become more and more frequent to hear come from people.

      • http://blog.siggon.org/ Siggon-Kristov

        Bayard Rustin was the first person to say “Gays are the new Niggers” – while LGBT persons in the US specifically aren’t hanged and put in camps (like they have been in other countries), they are still denied certain rights.
        If marriage wasn’t allowed between 2 African-Americans (or an African-American and someone else), then it would be a huge issue. Coretta Scott-King said that “Homophobia is like racism” and it is. It is discrimination based on something that someone can’t change about himself/herself. No-one is saying that LGBT persons are going through the same degree of oppression that African-Americans have gone through, but they are still fighting for civil rights which they deserve.
        So go on calling Bayard Rusting and Coretta Scott-King “disrespectful” to the African-American community, as much as I’m sure their contributions to Black rights far exceed yours.

        • Joshua Proper

          What I don’t understand is this: Why is the LGBT pushing so hard for Marriage? Marriage historically is a religious event between a man and a woman. They can push for Civil Union all they want and most people wouldn’t care. As a Christian I am fed up with people who claim their rights overrule mine. I love everyone and help anyone I can, I have never treated someone poorly because of who they are. I’ve also gotten along just fine with many Gay Men, however not a single one of them would dare think that I believed that being homosexual was okay. There is a huge difference between hating the Sin and not the Sinner, and yes there are Christians who need to learn this, but even more so the LGBT needs to learn this and stop trying to force people to accept their lifestyle. I’ve seen far too many of the LGBT community yell “homophobe” because someone doesn’t agree with their lifestyle, regardless of whether that person treated them any different other than that. To this I say: STOP CRYING WOLF. It is equally as bad as racism or sexism to accuse someone of such with no truth – just to get your way.

          • http://blog.siggon.org/ Siggon-Kristov

            Marriage was about one thing: money.
            Same-sex couples want the same financial benefits that opposite-sex couples enjoy, what is wrong with that? A civil union doesn’t give all the same benefits. I’m not saying we should be like Sweden and force the churches to conduct the marriages. Spain and other countries have same-sex marriages without forcing the church to conduct them. If 2 persons want to have a union and call it “marriage” – that’s their business, not yours. Christianity doesn’t have a monopoly on marriage. Marriage existed long before Christianity, in many societies, and it wasn’t necessarily a religious thing.
            If you think that marriage is about religion, then the state shouldn’t recognise marriage at all. The state should only recognise civil unions for everyone and leave marriage recognition up to the religious institutions, since it will only be available to certain persons. Otherwise, it’s just religious privilege, and it’s rather selfish that you want all laws to be about yourself instead of being all-inclusive (LGBT persons are asking for marriage laws to be inclusive of them, not any special rights for them).

  • glory2thee

    Great read! Although I’m sure this may be one of the remaining 90, to further Chris’ point, black people had no choice in the matter! We were born black and there is nothing we can do about it! Homosexuals however, do have a choice. Even if they believe they are born with those desires, it’s a choice they consciously make daily to act upon them.

    • Timothy McPherson

      I would have to politely disagree. Homosexuals have no choice in their orientation just as you have no choice in being heterosexual.

      • Dan Duncan

        Tim def hear you but to try and further the discussion Adam did not make this point so lets not steer what could be an interesting discussion into that corner! Thankful for your thoughts!

        • Tyshan Broden

          Good job on discussion control.

        • iLogos

          Okay, lets be fair here. This comment should have been directed at glory2thee not Timothy. glory2thee is the one who brought up a point for discussion not broached in the original article. To chastize Timothy for correcting them (there is no proof what-so-ever that homosexual orientation is a choice and mountains of evidence that points otherwise) seems to point towards favoritism or support of that view and to silence any point of view that does not hold that line. Now if you are a moderator and this site is meant for that, an echo chamber, then that is your prerogative, and I’ll just delete it from my bookmarks and be on my way. but if this is a place for thought provoking articles and healthy discussion, you need to be fair and even with whom you direct to stay on topic.

          • Dan Duncan

            Sure point taken. I responded from an admin site that simply notifies me on a comment. I apologize and meant no favoritism. Truly just a mistake! If I could go back I would mention both glory and Tim.

      • critical cultural mass

        It’s still not the same; the cultural social economic, and cognitive ramifications are not the same.

  • Ollie Ward

    A! T! What’s up bro. Good read! Let the sharing of this article begin. I got to stay prayed up though, the responses I will get when this hits my fb wall. I’ll keep you in my prayers as well. More to say but will get back at ya, again, good read.

    • ADThomason

      Thank you Ollie for reading and posting.

  • Dora Reynolds

    Many places around the world have made it illegal to be homosexual and often if you are discovered to be it means death. In these countries it is promoted to beat homosexuals and anyone who supports them. They aren’t considered citizens because it is illegal for them to exist. They are snatched from their families if they show who they are. Yes historically speaking in America it hasn’t been the same, but for many places across the world it has been. What popular culture is portraying isn’t saying they are exactly the same it is promoting equal rights for all and to end discrimination that has been around since the beginning of time. Homosexuals were persecuted during the holocaust and were sent to camps. So globally speaking, your points are invalid. Because even in America there are places that ban homosexuals and the top of that list is religious institutions.

    • Stefani Waits

      As a follower of Christ, I’d have to support Dora Reynolds. Discrimination is discrimination no matter if it’s performed in different ways and should be ended. While I think homosexuality is bluntly going against Gods design, I don’t think He’d want His people discriminating or denying each other living rights for it. Just as he wouldnt want murder, deception and black people enslaved for being who He created them to be. The discriminations are portrayed differently, but both are being hated against which is unfair and unjust.

      • ADThomason

        …Stefani thank you for your thoughts and replying, in all manners of peace, I wrote the article in full, to show a historical record of paradigm. So though I put down moments, I am not denying hate happens in the world and to homosexual men/women, if you see the spirit of which I wrote the article, it was never to condone hate but inform from history. Violence toward another is never okay.

      • BV

        Homosexuality isn’t simply a matter of “bluntly going against Gods design.” It’s emblematic of a culture that says that individual identity is irreducibly based on sexuality. Like many errors before it, it runs afoul of Christianity’s statement about human identity (as said through Paul): “I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live but Christ Who lives in me.” One claim of Christianity is that our individual identities are rooted in Christ, not our sexuality, gender, money, possessions, class, race, etc. etc. etc.

        There is no disagreement here that we Christians are not to love and forgive our homosexual neighbors as Christ first love and forgave us. But that doesn’t mean we’re supposed to celebrate false idols either.

        • iLogos

          That literally has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Nothing.

          It isn’t like sexuality is a choice. I didn’t choose to be straight. I don’t make the choice every day to only be attracted to women. It is a basic part of my being. I am straight because that is simply the way I was made. There are 1,500 species that exhibit homo or bisexuality with 500 different species being well documented (that is to say not dozens of documented instances, but dozens of years of documented studies). If God makes no mistakes then homosexuality is part of his plan. One which we do not yet understand.

          As to whatever point you were making about not celebrating false idols, Old testament God would have rained fire upon them, or some such thing, but Jesus died for ALL of our sins, and any harmful act or dehumanizing treatment, or restriction of rights is not living with Christ’s forgiveness, acceptance, and love. God will sit in judgment of them and their life, as he will me, and you. I don’t think he needs our help there.

          • Nate Johnson

            You are correct in that sexuality is not a choice, but I would argue that preference can be taught or nurtured. As a husband of a woman raised by 2 women I can only observe that her 2 sisters are both gay. One for as long as I can remember and the other, in the last year. The later had a long history of failed relationships with pour excuses (in my opinion) for men, and after being single for 3 years was introduced by her mother to a lesbian. Homosexuality is part of Gods plan, as is alcoholism, and other lifestyle sins. So that thru them we might recognize our need for a Savior.

            I also agree with you that it is not up to us to judge and or treat people in any other way than to love and respect them. Repentance is recognizing sin and turning away from it. Doing this is ACCEPTING Christ’s forgiveness. Anything else is making Christ Lord, but not Savior.

          • iLogos

            Well, you are missing out on a lot of things here, there is biology and there is psychology, nature and nurture. Homosexuality as a sexual orientation and behavior can be found throughout nature. Sexuality is a spectrum not a binary system. There is a difference between expressions of sexuality and sexual orientation.

            You can believe whatever you want about your God. He has no say in how we run this nation, nor is what you believe he wants relevant to the overall discussion.

          • Sarah

            “Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.” Isaiah 40:28

            There’s nothing that doesn’t have to do with God. Someday he will remake the Earth, and judge everyone. Not for what we deserve, but for having a relationship with Christ. No one can live in this way and at the same time live with God. That requires the very kind of self denial you claim damages homosexuals. I look past my honest emotions in many ways because I believe according to the Bible I am a completely different person.
            “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.” 2 Corinthians 5:17

          • aurrevoirshoshanna

            I love when people quote scripture to people who clearly don’t believe in God. That’s like me quoting the Koran to you girl, waste of time!

          • iLogos

            So you believe. Other people believe differently. This is a man made nation of secular laws, so what your religious beliefs are have no bearing on anyone but you.

            None of this has anything to do with the article and any opinion that depends on a religious text to support it is inherently flawed and dismissible in a debate about anything that is not specifically about that religion.

            But by all means keep telling people about how your interpretation of the divine says you must do this or that. I’m sure you’ll make a lot of headway.

          • BV

            whoa, lot of stuff here.

            1) I’m fully aware that my response to Stefani Waits had nothing to do with Red Rev’s OP. Stefani made a statement and I responded to that statement. My intent was not to be combative with Stefani, but I saw something that I thought could use some clarification.

            2) Whether sexuality is a choice is not really the issue here. I interpret the contemporary homosexual movement to be one that argues that human identity is irreducibly based on human sexuality. Our individual sexual predilections vary, sure, but that’s different from willfully choosing to base one’s identity ultimately on sexuality.

            3) The Bible’s teachings with regard to idols is not limited to the Old Testament (or Hebrew Bible). That’s readily apparent from 1 John, which ends with “Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.” There is a wealth of Christian commentary on idolatry and what it means. One readily accessible work is “Counterfeit Gods” by Tim Keller. In brief, an idol is something we make to be the ultimate thing in our life, the thing we worship, the thing by which we derive our own identities. The Christian message is a tough one: Christ is the basis of our individual identity, not sexuality, race, gender, class, wealth, etc etc etc. I personally don’t struggle with basing my identity on my sexuality, but I do struggle with other idols. I’m in need of God’s saving grace as much as everyone else.

            4) Even in view of Christ’s command that we are to love others as He first loved us, that does not mean that we as a CULTURE can have a discussion about what is the best social arrangement we can find for human flourishing. Here is where the rubber meets the road for the gay marriage debate. The point of “gay is the new black” is to make a particular political point: namely, opposition to gay marriage and full integration of homosexuals into all aspects of American life is bigotry. Red Rev’s OP does an excellent job in suggesting that the analogy between the African-American experience here in America is not a point-for-point analog to the homosexual experience here in America.

          • aurrevoirshoshanna

            1) Don’t care not addressing.

            2) So basically what you’re saying is that despite the fact that we grow up in a heavily gender-centric society where little girls are basically prepped from childhood to be the perfect wives, and people are celebrated when they find the perfect spouse and settle down, and everyone coos over them when they pop a couple babies out, and all the movies are about boys and girls falling in love that you think GAY people are the ones who base their identities on their sexuality? LOL! That’s rich. Half the girls I went to High School with think they’re on top of the world because they got married and had a child at 22 but yeah their identities totally aren’t tied to their sexuality like white on rice. Gay people are the ones whose identities navigate the grey area between masculine and feminine. Straight people literally cannot comprehend people who don’t fit neatly into the categories of male and female yet you somehow still don’t realize that YOU’RE the ones oversexualizing everything not us.

            3) Yawn

            4) Snore

      • critical cultural mass

        Everytime some says discrimination is discrimination, doesn’t make it so……..this statement still attempts ( even if not intentional) to compare the two and make them seem as if they were equal. End of the day especially with historical support it does not equal……

      • Is Ig

        To your statement of “homosexuality is bluntly going against Gods design”, what exactly is God’s design? Please let me know if God’s design includes being born mentally Ill, born with physical deformities, being born a genius with extreme high iq, being born just to die days later, being born with an ability that edges out most … a continuos list. Is it also God’s design that some animals behave in a “gay” manner? It’s best not to state God’s intentions, since many gay people were born this way.

        • Nate Johnson

          Are proclivity’s towards bestiality, pedophilia, incest, alcoholism, part of Gods design? I feel certain many people would say that they were born this way as well. Her point is that the Bible calls homosexuality sin. A lifestyle of sin. And since we are all born of original sin, with different desires towards different types – then to live in those designs does go against his design that ‘all should be saved’. Saved from what? Self. There are passages that confirm that being born blind, deaf and/or mute are and can be in fact part of Gods design. Strenghs and weaknesses (call them what you please) are part of his design so that we can be a whole body (the church) and be of benefit to our fellows. That great thing about discrimination is that to some degree or another we all experience it. Did you have glasses or braces in school? What about red hair? Evil takes many forms, and hating anyone for any difference is one. Not what Jesus taught, but neither is living a lifestyle of sin.

    • TweetMeDamnit

      He’s talking about American guy! Homosexuals weren’t the only people sent to camps during the holocaust. And please show me one religious institute that bans homosexuality and I’ll show you a religious institute that doesn’t stand on the grounds of it’s teachings.

      • iLogos

        Just about 90% of all Christian churches actively teach, preach, or implicitly present anti-homosexual viewpoints to out right banning of homosexuals from serving in their ranks of pastors/preachers/priests, as well as more civic positions, and most have bans against any homosexual behavior, some against homosexuals even being in their congregation.

        And yes, that does mean they don’t stand on the grounds of the Bible, but then the Bible and churches were used to justify slavery as well…

        • Panther2017

          Churches should teach that all sin is wrong. Homosexuality, fornication, murder, etc. are all sin and should be spoken against.

          • iLogos

            Except if you have studied the bible with focus of social anthropology or linguistics you realize it doesn’t actually say two of those things. The Jewish laws against “homosexuality” are about treating another man as chattel who is not your slave, the phrase man shall not lay with a man as he would a woman, is about homosexuality it is about not treating free-men as property (and even that phrase is poorly translated, the ancient Greek text reads differently). Fornication is about worshiping other gods through sexual congress with their temple prostitutes.

            Now murder is in fact specifically proscribed, but way to say homosexuality and sex before marriage are the equivalent of murder in your eyes.and that of your church and god. That sounds exactly like the love by which Jesus commands all his followers to have for all others.

          • Dan Duncan

            Hey Guys! The point of the site is to promote thought and respectful conversation around a thought! This article was not religious in tone or usage so please don’t turn the article there if the author did not seek that as well! Thankful for everyone thoughts but please this site is meant to help people understand a different point of view not to create another place on line to yell! Please respect that and join in!

        • Sarah

          1) The “slavery” referred to in the Bible is indentured slavery, which is made voluntarily and is not permanent.

          2) The Bible is like a contract for teachers and others with responsibility in the church. Of course someone who does not believe in it shouldn’t work there. How would that be productive?

          • iLogos

            Oh sweet Jesus give this person who claims to speak in your name humbleness and inspiration to use your gift of intelligence.

            You have no idea what you are talking about. Literally none. You should do some _historical_ research into the slavery the Egyptians used. You are either making stuff up, read that as lying, or you are reciting something you have been told by someone who was lying to you. Before you respond do some academic research into how Hebrews did slavery with each other (which is what you are referring to, 7 years of service and then freedom) and then how they treated non-Hebrew slaves and how Egyptians treated the Hebrews as slaves (for life and passed on to children as property).

    • ADThomason

      With all manner of love and peace I respond to you Dora. You said this to myself “So globally speaking, your points are invalid.” So my point is invalid that history supports how African were transported from the eastern world by the hundreds on boats to many countries not just America. But along the way many died, were vomiting on, tossed over board. So you are saying that this is invalid and there is a Middle passage for homosexuals historically, that saw this happen?

      • Dora Reynolds

        I wasn’t disagreeing with what happened in history, I was saying your points that homosexuals haven’t experienced the same are incorrect and in a comment you made previously you discussed that slavery existed well before it hit US soil and you brought in the global perspective, and I know more than just homosexuals were persecuted in the holocaust. I’m saying the fight for the LGBT is for them all globally, just like ending slavery was a global fight. In America people were encouraged to beat and kill homosexuals and they have been banned from public institutions such as schools, churches, being in office. While they have not faced the same atrocities, they have died, been murdered and killed themselves because they were different.

        • Dora Reynolds

          Comparing the scope of devastation is different than what Macklemore is saying, he is comparing the fight for equality.

    • Jack Ross

      To be fair. The article focuses on the American Civil Rights Movement
      and the American LGBT Rights Movement, so it wasn’t meant to be taken in
      a global context. With all due respect, your globalization argument is
      beyond the scope of the article and the authors points are still valid within the prescribed context.

      While it may be that in certain churches across the nation LGBT members may
      be discriminated against. However, that doesn’t hold a candle to
      the injustices mentioned in the article against Africans and African
      Americans some of which where supported by our system of government.

      Moreover, the authors point was not to dismiss the relevance
      of the LGBT Movement. Rather it was to disprove it’s equivalence to the
      Civil Rights Movement. Which has been shown by simple facts of American
      history. The two events are separate and stand alone albeit for similar
      reasons. To compare the two or suggest that “Gay is the new black” would be both insensitive and invalid from an American
      historical context.

      • ADThomason

        Jack, thank you for seeing the full context in which the article was written.

      • iLogos

        Separate and stand alone…is that anything like separate, but equal?

        Homosexuals have had a FAR rougher time than the author has stated. I’m afraid while he knows his Black history very well, he knows very little about the LGBT history in this country. He probably should have done a fair bit more research before writing an article like this. In much the same way large swaths of the horrors committed against Blacks have been suppressed in the general education and media of this country so to has that of the LGBT’s. It requires some active effort to discover a lot of his points actually do have equivalents within that community.

        Even the statement made about homosexuals being able to hide while blacks could not is inaccurate, though this time on the side of blacks. There is a long history of people who passed as white, or some other more acceptable ethnicity than African American Black during the days of Jim Crow. One of my mentors was one.

        • Panther2017

          Those people are in the extreme minority. My darker skinned ancestors could not pretend they were White and move into White society and enjoy the protections being White afforded. Any homosexual could pretend to be heterosexual and no one would be the wiser.

          • iLogos

            Doesn’t matter. That is the problem with absolute statements in an argument, it only takes one example to invalidate the entire point. It is not one that should have eve been made because it is irrelevant AND untrue.

            Being able to pass is a reality for some member so of both groups. Now stop, I invite you to think about the psychological damage that was done to those African Americans who could and did pass. The fear they lived with that they would be discovered. The strain of constantly having to lie and pretend to be something they are not. The pain at having to pretend rather than be accepted, hell even tolerated, or just left alone. It is amazing that so many of African Americans who passed where successful in life…now do I need to draw the rest of it out for you or can you start to understand why the suicide and mental illness rate among homosexuals is so high?

            The problems they suffer because of the ability SOME of them have (because not all are capable, that capability is based entirely on mental endurance and skill at being entirely different than who they are at the core of their being) is mostly unfathomable to straight people who have not done academic research or have a close personal friend who has come out to them and shared with them some of the terrible things they had to deal with.

            I learned what I know being a mental health professional. I’ll tell you know if God himself gave me a choice to go back and live my life as a black man or a gay man, I’d choose the black man. It is a struggle I know, one which I managed to survive. I don’t know if I could walk a mile as a gay teen.

          • Dan Duncan

            Love the point iLogos…Thankyou for the insight on the damage of passing and not simply the ability to pass! Not something that anyone else had brought up! If you feel like you would ever want to write to the counter or this site is not about one point of view or one audience but a place for thinkers and seekers of truth to come and discuss hard topics in love! I hope you would join in that!

          • Charlene Mozee

            You would choose being a black man after slavery, the hangings, from the trees, the journey from your motherland across the ocean, the taking of your name and language and culture. The laws governing how you looked at a white person when talking or in the presence of a white female. The Jim Crow laws which kept you from voting, owning property, being paid a fair wage. Yes your choice is after the brutal struggle.

          • iLogos

            Exactly. That is my point. LGBT don’t compare what they go through in this country today to what blacks went through when they were ripped from Africa and brought here as slaves. You’ll never see a single advocate of the LGBT make that statement because it is asinine.

            They compare the discrimination of the last decade or two and find striking similarities with the period of the Civil Rights movement.

            If I was given the choice between a black man today or a gay white man, I’d choose a black man. Not because of any fear of God (I believe God loves all of us — period. No exceptions or conditions), but because it is frankly easier to be a Black man today than a gay man. I’m ever so thankful though I am not a gay Black man. I feel for my brothers who carry that burden.

          • Hobbes Deutsch Jr.

            The word “faggot” has its origins in what kindling is to be used for a fire, more specifically the ones that were used to burn homosexuals to death.

            See how much we have in common ?

        • Charlene Mozee

          Passing as white would be equivalent to “being in the closet” right?

          • iLogos

            Pretty much.

        • Jack Ross

          “Separate and stand alone…is that anything like separate, but equal?”

          No. These are two parts of American History. That is what separates them. From a historical context, these two events stand alone.

          Indeed, there may be injustices committed against members of the LGBT community. I don’t think anyone here is denying or attempting to minimize this reality.

          However, there has not been an instance in American History where people were not considered citizens, denied unalienable rights, or forced into hard labor for centuries, hung from trees for entertainment, systematically hunted and captured based on their sexual orientation. The same is not true for Africans and African Americans in regard to the color of their skin.

          There is no appeal to emotion here. This is simply a fact of American History as the author has stated.

          Moreover, I do not believe we should be comparing and ranking human suffering. It is both nonsensical and extremely insensitive to both sides. Rather we should focus on the goals at hand and move forward.

          • iLogos

            Except those things have happened around the world to LGBT’s and the author himself is the one who introduced global history into it (which was a mistake).

            And I agree we should not be comparing sufferings, but that is not what the LGBT community does. The author, and several other writers, pundits, and politicians need that straw man to avoid the real comparison being made, that the LGBT have from a perspective of the Civil Rights Movement (and that alone) suffered many of the same types of discrimination, and to be clear, “gay is the new black” is saying that the majority can no longer treat Blacks like second class citizens, openly harassing, discriminating against, beating, arresting, and dehumanizing, but all of those things can, and are, being done to LGBT.

            It isn’t a comparison of sufferings, it is a statement of the societal hate and fear directed openly against Blacks has largely been refocused over the last twenty years on LGBT. And they are correct in MANY ways. Not all…but many.

          • Jack Ross

            I disagree entirely.

            The author mentions the Middle Passage, which was part of the global slave trade. It is relevent here and well within the context of American History because it served as the means for bringing African slaves to North America.

            “…the societal hate and fear directed openly against Blacks has largely been refocused over the last twenty years on LGBT.”

            ^ this statement is the heart of the issue. As a young black male in the southern United States I can guarantee you there has been no “refocusing”. You speak as if suffering or hate is a sharable and movable commodity that can be collected and scored.

            Both sides suffer. Both sides endure. They shouldn’t be compared. Blacks and homosexuals both have histories of being beaten, humiliated, and murdered because of who they are in a society that deems them internal enemies, or scapegoats. But those histories are distinct, and cannot be compared.

            Likewise it is not advantageous to build a movement on the someone’s history of struggle. It’s a bad strategy to also
            alienate other oppressed people by appropriating their difficult
            histories. Gay is not the new Black – Gay is Gay, with it’s own history of struggle against oppression, and that history should be and is enough to demand justice, and equality.

          • iLogos

            The author very specifically in the comments stated that the middle passage was meant to show the global nature. If you read more of his comments you’ll see he repeats statements that enforce the global nature of it. I’m going to let that part drop because the author’s statements about what he meant trump yours.

            As to the rest, I’ve lived in the south. Trust me the focus has in large shifted. Point to me one law in any state, county, or city that dictates how blacks can marry. Notice how every time a white politician is caught being overtly racist he is called to task, by the opposition, by the media, and even by his own party. Everything now is coded in discussions with the public. Not so with homosexuals.

            You’ll disagree, that is fine, you have your experience and I have mine.

          • sunnyside

            That not all but many is an important point. So is the refocusing of hate – hate seems to be equal opportunity and shifts focus with state lines, the economy, politics to the poor, women, racial and ethnic minorities, QUILTBAG. So long as we are willing to dismiss and look down on each other, we’ll see our rights be treated as negotiable, a matter of law rather than human dignity.

          • Hobbes Deutsch Jr.

            Your ignorance of American History as it pertains to queers is astounding. Do more research into Gay American History.

          • aurrevoirshoshanna

            How are you going to attempt to glorify the struggles of one group over another and then say you’re not trying to minimize the reality. They are 2 different things. Why are you trying to compare them if not to somehow scale one in relation to the other? You’re being hypocritical.

      • Hobbes Deutsch Jr.

        Sorry, but this article smacks of egotism. I’ve heard this basic argument before, that gays can “hide” our sexuality. Point being, we shouldn’t have to and it’s dangerous to us either way.

        I’m queer. I have a great guy who always makes this overly serious guy laugh. I won’t “hide” my life in some societal shamebox just because others can’t handle it. Trying to hide every aspect of one’s sexuality is learned self-hate. There are plenty out there to hate queers.

        Look up Bayard Rustin. Was a gay black man at the right side of MLK, Jr. who orchestrated the March on Washington. That’s civil rights working the right way.

        • Jack Ross

          I’m black and with all do respect whether you believe the article is egotistic or not, it is still factual and relevant. No one is dismissing anyone’s side here. The author is pointing out that there are stark differences between being gay and being black and that they shouldn’t be compared within the context of American History.

          Black is Black, and Gay is Gay. The struggles they each face within America are unique. I do not see the need to compare the two. Each has enough cause to seek justice and equality.

          • aurrevoirshoshanna

            You can’t point out the differences between 2 things without comparing them… so what are you really saying? On one hand you’re saying the 2 shouldn’t be compared but then you somehow support the author pointing out the differences between them aka comparing them.

      • aurrevoirshoshanna

        In its most basic form the article attempts to draw comparisons between the struggles of the American Civil Rights Movement and the American LGBT Rights Movement when they shouldn’t be made. He starts off by basically saying he takes offence to parallels being drawn between the ACRM and the ALGBTRM by comments such as ‘Gay is the New Black’ being made and then goes on to DO exactly what he took issue with in the first place. That statement is not a part of any LGBT civil rights platform and to address the lyrics of a white straight male popstar singing about what he thinks being gay is like makes no sense. They’re both irrelevant in the grander scheme of things.

        It’s an apples to oranges comparison. Of course an apple does not equal an orange. They’re two different things. But saying in the 1930′s the orange had it harder than the apple has it in 2014 is COMPLETELY dismissing the relevance of the apple’s struggles by trying to downplay it. Not only that, but he clearly doesn’t really seem all that educated on apples to begin with. All he had to say is they’re not the same and that’s that.

        There’s no way to predict what the pervasive effects of the gay rights struggle will be 100 years from now. So you are right in saying to compare the two would be both insensitive and invalid but not only in a historical context but a modern day context as well. The black struggle is largely history and the queer struggle is history in the making. He shouldn’t have tried to compare them in the first place and it’s super insensitive to tell people they’re not struggling as hard as your ancestors struggled (literally as they’re struggling) instead of simply saying hey they were different struggles and I acknowledge your struggle.

        By the way I am a gay black male so this is coming from someone on the double struggle bus this was very unnecessary.

  • RevAdamPeek

    I have long thought these same things, but as a straight white Christian man, could never state them with any sort of authority or force. If the argument is the principle of discrimination is the same, though the severity is different; I could point to multiple times that I have been discriminated against for jobs due to Affirmative Action laws (which certainly have their place).

    What I believe is that though all of us our discriminated against to varying degrees, the author, in my opinion, is arguing that the severity of actions against the black community was higher than what the LGBT community is experiencing. Is there really anyone willing to argue against this? Beatings and lynchings are far worse than not having your love recognized by the state or federal government. As the author states, nobody is removing gay kids from their families as a means to divide and conquer.

    In summary, the principle of discrimination is the same. In that, both the LGBT community and Black community have/are experiencing it. But so are white Christian males in their 30′s. However, the consequences of the discrimination is vastly different. I found a job elsewhere. Nobody’s threatening to kill me for my skin color or religion. As far as I can tell, the LGBT community is only being denied the rights and benefits of being legally recognized as married by the government. It just doesn’t equate to the plight of the African and African American. it’s like me saying I can identify with a slave because I couldn’t qualify for college scholarships.

    Thank you for this article, Adam

    • iLogos

      I’ll argue against it, because he creates a straw man with his argument. In order to demonstrate that there is no similarity he has to twist his argument to be both historical and global and ascribe to the LGBT community a scope they are not arguing. The LGBT community leaders and advocates have mostly kept such comparisons confined to the Civil Rights movement struggles against systemic and societal discrimination. In order to prove his point the author has to remove this limiting factor that has been ascribed, because to do otherwise would severely weaken his argument since the is a LOT of equivalency, and most people when presented with the facts of discrimination in that narrow context would have to admit the struggles are eerily similar.

  • Andrew Phan

    But what about when race and sexuality intersect? This article seems to suggest there is gay, and there is black, and nothing in between. What histories get lost in this narrative?

    And I agree that Macklemore and Michael Gross are making false binaries, the transatlantic slave trade is probably the most influential and grotesque institutions the western world has in invented and the systematic oppression it facilitated has played out really differently the struggle of the queer movement. But why do two straight dudes get to be the voices of the gay rights movement?

    The gay rights movement, has like many things been co-opted by white cis-gendered men. By creating this article in response to Macklemore and Michael Gross, it reinforces the notion that white men are the face of the gay rights movement, which is bullshit because the stonewall riots were started by transwomen of color. Vallidating white men as the exclusive voices of the queer community is to be complicit in white supremacy (and patriarchy).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsha_P._Johnson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Rivera

    The issue with this article is it attempts to conflate queer and black identities as separate and create an impossibility of solidarity or intersection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality). POC issues have never been separate, from LGBTQIA ones. The article fails to contextualize queer relationships with institutions like the police, the prison industrial complex, employment, housing, medical accessibility, etc.
    (read this book http://www.akpress.org/captivegenders.html).

    If anything I wish this writer came for Macklemore for being such a pompous presumptuous douche who thinks he has any right to speak to these things, instead of trying to erase queer struggles.

    • ADThomason

      …Andrew I am called to be a peace-maker in how address things, however I would actually say the reason I wrote this article was to respond to Macklemore being so confidently miseducated (said from an educational standpoint not trying to condescending) from a historical perspective. Nothing in my article tried to erase “struggles” that is why i purposely put as a culmination “…Though perceived hypocrisy and inequality has affected homosexual men/women and Africans–and continues to…”

      • Andrew Phan

        1. Why are you listening to straight white men about queer issues?

        2. Where do black queer folk fit into this conversation?

        3. You are indeed erasing queer struggle. When you say “struggles” in quotations your making an effort to trivialize our struggle and resistance.

        You speak a lot about what homosexuals will never experience, but I’m wondering how you know is it you know what we experience? There is no queer history given in your bullet point essay, just blind assertions of you telling people what queer people didn’t experience. You either don’t know queer history, or didn’t care to do the research. Just like Macklemore you felt justified in narrating someone else’s story.

        • ADThomason

          Andrew, thank you for your response, i would disagree lovingly as you are assuming why I put “struggles” in quotes, though you do not know please assume the best. If you want to know honestly in conversation, feel free to email me. You ask and I will provide it. I am sorry you feel this way as the full context of the article was responding to pop-comments with historical fact from the African societal paradigm, not giving a lesson or retelling a story. Where I am imperfect, which is often and always, I hope love you can think the best of me and not assume, however, I will not apologize for defending a legacy that started before the American conversation that I am a part of because of my ethnicity. I am not disregarding what happens to a community but standing up for the legacy of one that should have been wiped out–Africans.

          • Andrew Phan

            I’d rather not have this conversation behind closed doors, considering this article is very public. That and you’ve just skirted around all my questions and I want to name that. Why does this conversation have to become private for you to be “honest?”

            I understand full well what historical context you are giving, you give clear concise examples of the “African societal paradigm” in your arguments. This however only serves to highlight your lack knowledge regarding queer history. You never compare the two histories, you just say “they will never experience _______” at the end of very precise historical references in favor of your argument.

            And there are truth in parts (keyword parts) of your arguments, the queer experience is not the black experience. But also recognize queer is not really a culture, or social group that is distinct from ethnicity.

            There are queer black people (we’ve dated, you can’t pretend they don’t exist), and I’m wondering what your agenda is in avoiding acknowledging that.

            This is the last you’ll hear from me, as I’m not trying to become an internet troll.

            But next time allow queer folk to explain their own traumas and histories, instead of just spitting out whatever is convenient for your narrative.

  • Donte

    To even begin to compare racial identity and sexual identity is preposterous. I know several individuals who were “born that way” that have gone on to change their sexual identity. I’ve never known anyone who was born “black” and eneded up being “white”. Regardless of argument, whether people feel that they were born homosexual or not, it is possible for someone to change and be attracted to something else. With race, it is impossible.

    • Dan Duncan

      That is the purpose of this article though to compare the two…and the discussion to follow is a worthy one…please be careful to generalize…This is a place to be thankful for diversity of thought and not drive it away. Thats why this place exits. You points are valid here as long as they are backed up by thought and this topic is natural to feel very one way or another. But lets help people to understand not yell our point our view to be the loudest. Thank you Donte for sharing and I hope you continue to.

    • Jonna Rakowski

      Your stupid and a waste of space on this planet… i wish you people all just get shipped off to the moon or something… one day your grandchildren will hear and see your views and this you are just as bad as any racist in the 60s

    • Panther2017

      Michael Jackson was born black and ended up being white. :)

      • Charlene Mozee

        Read about a condition of the skin called Vitiligo and ways of lightening the skin with hydroquinilone. (spellings may be incorrect)

      • Bettye Neely

        He looked white just like white people who tan, look Black. that is all superficial. You have to live the life of being BLACK/WHITE. The same is true when one says they were born a woman. I say have a period for 40 years, have atleast one baby, endure financial discrimination. than come and tell me how it is to be a woman. Please get a real life. Acting is one thing. Being is another.

        • aurrevoirshoshanna

          Are you saying women who don’t have a baby or endure financial discrimination are inherently not women?

    • aurrevoirshoshanna

      What? There’s a difference between sexual identity and sexuality. Sexual identity is the gender you’re perceived as in society also known as your gender identity. This is different from who you’re attracted to. You can change your gender identity but you cannot change your sexuality. So while your friends may have changed their gender identity they definitely did not change their sexuality unless they’re lying to themselves.

  • Elizabeth Harrison

    Could disabled be the new black? Using your five points, I’d say it could be:

    1. Yes, disabled people are expected to use separate entrances, facilities etc and have to ask permission before places are made accessible to them. Not being allowed in the front door because it’s been built with steps feels just as degrading, particularly when the side door is locked and nobody will answer the bell. We can’t go anywhere we want spontaneously.
    2. Disabled children have, in the past, been taken away from their parents and institutionalised at birth, or aborted before birth.
    3. No. We’re not slaves, that’s not a history we share with black people. Many of us would be fairly useless at manual labour. There are, however, practical, moveable barriers that prevent us from being allowed to work, be paid equally, and be self-sufficient.
    4. Disabled people often are treated as second-class citizens, and have choices taken from them by the way society is set up. Nobody able-bodied is objecting when services they take for granted, such as access to Citizen’s Advice centres, their political representatives, or educational establishments, is denied to disabled people.
    5. Disabled people are subjected to painful but unproven medical treatments against their will, and often mistreated under the guise of it being “scriptural” to do so.

    I appreciated your post; it’s given me food for thought, and I’m sure there’s much that disabled, black, and LGBTQIAPK people can learn from each other’s courage, persistence and victories. Thank you for sharing your experience.

    • Jack Ross

      With all due respect Elizabeth. This is a straw man. Nothing in the
      author’s article suggested anything about the disabled. The context of
      the article is framed between the African American and LGBT communities
      and the statements regarding the likeness of their respective Civil
      Rights Movements.

      The article’s main idea is along the lines of: “The
      plight of African-Americans is not the same order of magnitude as the
      plight of American LGBT members when observed from an American historical
      context. Therefore, there is little grounds for comparison of the two.”

      Perhaps you could request that the author create a separate
      article examining the validity of “disabled is the new black” where your points can be debated within the prescribed context.

      • iLogos

        It isn’t a straw man, at best it is false equivalency, but what Elizabeth was doing was drawing comparisons between the struggles two groups have gone through. All of which are true. That it may weaken the original argument because of its veracity without stopping to directly contradict the article does not make it a straw man, it makes it a salient point.

        • Jack Ross

          I see what she was trying to say, but I would suggest that this is a textbook straw man. The scope of the original argument doesn’t contain her described point. Yet she is trying to insert and use another position to weaken the original point. The
          arguer argues to a conclusion
          that denies/proves the “straw man”(disabled is the new black), but misses the target (gay is the new black).

          This fallacy is a type of Red Herring because the arguer is attempting
          to refute the other side’s position, and in the context is required to
          do so, but instead attacks a position not held by the other side. The author never comments or takes a position on the likeness of disabled people and African Americans.

          Indeed, there may be
          nothing wrong with the argument presented by Elizabeth when it is taken
          out of the context of this article, that is, it may be a perfectly good argument for/against
          the statement “disabled is the new black”.

          It is only because the burden of proof is on the arguer
          to argue against the opponent’s position that a Straw Man fallacy is
          committed. So, the fallacy is not simply the argument, but the entire
          situation of the argument occurring in such a context.

          • iLogos

            Her post lacks the one ultimate defining point of a straw man, which is accrediting the argument to your opposition. Without that it can not qualify as a straw man. It cannot even be counted as a red herring because ti does not seek to mislead the reader. She is very clear that she is asking based on the authors own stated reasons why gay is not the new black if disabled is the new black. It weakens his argument because it demonstrates that his attempt to say that the effects of discrimination were unique to the Black experience, were not. IT is a central assumption he makes and invites the readers to also believe.

            Now if he had kept his statements confined to the words, in context, of an actual advocate of the LGBT community, and pointed out how in that limited scope there was no meaningful resonance or few if any similarities he would not have opened himself up to this line of debate…of course he couldn’t because he would have proven the underlying point, that what the LGBT have had to go through for the last two decades is incredibly similar to what Blacks had to go through following the passing of various Civil Rights Laws.

      • Elizabeth Harrison

        Of course, I’m not saying the author mentioned disability or disabled people at all. But where he’s found two civil rights movements that can’t be easily compared, I’ve identified a third which has more in common.

        If it’s not helpful to your debate, then do ignore my comments – I’m not in an American context so have missed the topical discussion that sparked the article.

  • Bart Hutchins

    Can christians stop pretending they have read Gross’ article.

    I havent seen this quote from the article on a single evangelical site.

    “Our oppression,
    by and large, is nowhere near as extreme as blacks’,
    and we insult them when we make facile comparisons
    between our plights.”

    • Bart Hutchins

      May I also add that quoting and arguing against a Macklemore lyric to counter the LGBTQ movement is like me arguing against a Joel Osteen quote to counter the Christ movement.

    • Dan Duncan

      Thanks Bart for sharing the entire context of the quote! Fighting for truth here!! Thus full context is important

      • Bart Hutchins

        Not sure if you’re being sarcastic or not but yes, the author is pretty clear that the gay is the new black in “only one way.”

        • Dan Duncan

          Totally not sarcastic! Also not a Christian hopefully a site that takes in all different “conscious” perspectives that seek truth and good for all! And agin super thankful for your interjection!

    • ADThomason

      I actually read the article in full, no pretending here.

      It’s funny that the same venom one crowd disdains toward them they use to attack. I applaud Michael Gross’ spirit in his article “gay is the new black” in saying: we will not progress with using the same hate used against us, love has to be the vehicle that drives this forward.

      So though I don’t agree with the term, his heart for progressing his views is not through attack, I have yet to see people champion that element of his.

  • Anthony Randall

    The history of Africans were accurate in this article, but his history on the LGBT community is incomplete. First off, he took the entire history of The African Suffrage and compared it to only LGBT American History. He disregarded the many countries—where homosexuality is not only illegal but punishable by death. Of course, you cant compare gay marriage to slavery, but you can compare Uganda’s anti-gay laws to slave lynchings. A law where if you are just rumored to be gay–it could mean prison and/or death. At this very moment–this is not history for many Gays—its reality. Of course, you can’t compare the institution of slavery to Gay Rights, but you can compare Jim Crow to laws–that made homosexuality in the U.S illegal up until 2003. This article was a failed attempt to discredit the claim “Gay Is the New Black” simply because his explanations are thoroughly lop sided in favor of Black suffrage, but is limited in scope and detail of Gay Suffrage. It is all to easy to say The Gay Movement is just about Gay Marriage– when trying to create the impression that black Suffrage by far exceeds any discrimination The LGBT community has faced or will face. But I would argue this article is a false equivalency, and only serves the purpose to provoke reaction. He is comparing two evils, and saying because this group suffered more–throughout history, which isn’t true, homosexuality has been met with resistance almost worldwide–throughout history, that you cant compare Gay Suffrage to Black Suffrage. As I stated earlier for many Blacks, Black Suffrage is just history—Gay Suffrage is a deem dark reality for many Gays in this world today.

    • Jack Ross

      I respectfully disagree . The context of the article focuses on American history. Within that scope, your point about Uganda is invalid in this arguement. Those laws don’t apply to the American LGBT community, it applies to those in Uganda.

      Your point about Jim Crow to Anti-Gay laws in the U.S has some merit within the context of the discussion.

      “He is comparing two evils and saying because this group suffered more–throughout history, which
      isn’t true, homosexuality has been met with resistance almost
      worldwide–throughout history, that you cant compare Gay Suffrage to
      Black Suffrage.”

      This statement is arguing out of context of the article. You interject a claim that African Americans haven’t suffered as much as homosexuals have historically. What evidence within American history has lead you to this conclusion?

      “As I stated earlier for many Blacks, Black Suffrage is just
      history—Gay Suffrage is a deem dark reality for many Gays in this
      world today.”

      I must not have gotten the memo. When I walk into a room I am always a black male. I have been judged because of my skin color. I have seen the effects of Black Suffrage in my life. So no, I do not believe it is just history as you say. When a homosexual walks into a room, he/she is a male/female. Their orientation is only revealed if they decide to reveal it. I do not have that luxury.

      Furthermore, I support the LGBT movement, but i disagree that homosexuality is interchangeable with being African American. I simply wouldn’t think to compare the two.

      • Anthony Randall

        The article makes broad claims that were not always common practices for all slave owners therefore, it is mistakenly misleading, to say the least, about the struggle of those that have died or suffered at the hands of their attackers as LGBTQI people. Unlike color, being same gender loving or Gay has always had it’s unpopular recognizable traits. Unfortunately, since the beginning of time, the Gays have been singled out across the globe as being different and even ostracized by every known culture, to include being disowned by their own families. I guess you can’t call being dragged behind a truck to death, beaten to death by fellow shipmates on an official U.S. Naval vessel, tied to a fence and beaten to death, or targeted for sex and subsequent robbery and murder any substitution for a lynching. Maybe it only holds little relevance to the struggle of the LGBTQI Community at large because gambits of the rapes and murders have yet to make the news because the individual’s life wasn’t worth the print on paper or the film for media exposure. Mind you, color is not an issue but perceived feminine or homosexual traits have reign supreme in the constant insults, bullying, and exclusions without so much as a blink. Not only is the subject of homosexuality tricky but the pretense of those that gave a hand in committing much of the crimes against our very own have prescribed to the same behaviors in secret or silence but for fear of being discovered had succumb to the peer pressures of killing the fag. No! Being Gay is not the new Black. Albeit, it has always been a great point of contention that has caused the decimation of my brothers and sisters leaving a bloody trail that was often unrecorded and practically invisible at times causing more harm to the pathology of men, women, and children for far to damn long. To put it plainly, Gays have a struggle and it reads of physical, social, mental, and financial injustices liken to any other civil injustice. So before we are so quick to make a shady comparison, let us not forget MLK’s fateful words. “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

        • Jack Ross

          I agree. Both African Americans and homosexuals have their own unique struggles in American Society. It is pointless to compare the two because it gets us nowhere. The both have reason to seek justice and equality.

    • Griff

      Suffrage? The right to vote? People who identify as homosexual are allowed to vote.

  • Imran Acosta

    Thanks for the article. It was a good read.

  • http://wildflowerramblings.wordpress.com/ Amy @ Wildflower Ramblings

    Amen. Thank you for the needed history lesson.

  • Marcus Cedric Bethely

    Degree of hate shouldn’t matter . All sin is the same , would of thought your degree in bible would of taught you that

    • Dan Duncan

      Marcus this place is a conversation… No need for personal shots…thanks

      • iLogos

        It isn’t a personal shot. The author clearly states what his background is as if it gives him authority. Marcus, is pointing out the hypocrisy or logical inconsistency with what is a commonly taught church doctrine and teh main thrust of this article. There is a distinct difference between a point of contention and ad hominem.

        • Dan Duncan

          Your point is well taken, the previous post made it personal. Obviously you feel very passionate about this topic and that gets me excited since I think you would have some very well thought out ideas. If you would like to write a counter article please do so and send it over to info@Forthdistrict.com Thanks

  • Triston Gianni King

    1. Gay people are constantly reminded of being less than when acting “gay” or “feminine” is considered to be a negative trait. Not to mention the blood and adoption bans that act as if gays are separate dangerous species that will poison “perfect” heterosexual society.

    2. I agree that gays are never taken from their families, they are instead abandoned by their families for being gay, and many youth which are homeless are the result of homophobia within families.

    3. Gays have never been sold into slavery but have witnessed the constant beatings, deaths, and prosecution of their people throughout the ages, especially during the beginning of the Enlightenment. Many people don’t even know that gays were victims of the Holocaust alongside Jewish people.

    4.The article completely disregards homosexual prosecution between the early 1900′s through the 60′s in the U.S. Not to mention that gays are barely considered citizens in the U.S. and can still be fired, unable to serve on a jury or a a teacher and cannot be married (Just to name a few rights denied gay Americans).

    5. Gay people don’t need to be made into property to justify their beatings. People are taught that being gay is worth the beating in it’s own. You aren’t even human, you are “a gay”

    While I agree the two experiences are not comparable because they are two different walks of life, as a queer black male I find the language in this article insulting and unfounded, especially as the author did not seem to give homosexuals a historically accurate chance.

    • BV

      Appreciate your post. I have a question in view of your comments: what then is the point of the analogy of “gay is the new black”?

      In my useless opinion, it’s clear that this analogy is designed for a specific political goal. I think this analogy is intentionally designed to invoke a particular emotion from our civil society: if you’re opposed to gay marriage (i.e. vindication of the homosexual identity), then you’re a bigot. How does that further the debate?

      • Triston Gianni King

        There is no single target of bigotry. That type of behavior is taught by an an oppressor to encourage further separation of the oppressed so that they may bring one another down, as this article suggests.

        • BV

          if there is no single target of bigotry, then why sue a baker? then why sue a florist?

          • Triston Gianni King

            I don’t understand your metaphor.

          • BV

            Whoops, not florist, a photographer. My bad.

            http://verdict.justia.com/2013/09/04/new-mexico-supreme-court-anti-discrimination-law-to-wedding-photographer

            I’m not invoking any metaphors. You said that there “is no single target of bigotry.” I agree. Christians can be targets of bigotry. See those factual, actual instances where a homosexual couple sued a baker, where a homosexual couple sued a photographer.

            I think there is no reason to sue this photographer (and a baker in another factual, actual story) but for retribution, but for their perceived bigotry.

          • Triston Gianni King

            To deny someone a service that they paid for because you don’t like their sexual preference is bigotry. Christians aren’t the targets of oppression considering no one needs to convince you that there’s something wrong with being Christian.

          • BV

            Fail: the same-sex couple never “paid” the photographer. read the facts of the case, and remember verb tenses.

            Anyhow, i’m willing to bet that there were better avenues for the same-sex couple to pursue. For example, a boat-load of money could’ve been saved by simply asking another photographer to memorialize the event.

            If you think that “Christians aren’t the targets of oppression,” then I invite you to consider a day-in-the-life of a Christian who lives in, e.g., Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt, Lebanon, China …

          • Triston Gianni King

            But wasn’t this article about American oppression?
            And I don’t think a religion that agrees that mass murder across Eurasia and usage of a book to justify centuries of slavery, misogyny, and yes, homophobia, should be trying to say they are oppressed.

          • Dan Duncan

            Triston thanks for sharing man! Really appreciate it and also trying to steer back on topic! The point of this article was about oppression, oppression 40 years ago and oppression today.

          • Jim Kranz

            Triston, that was an offensive comment, and a complete straw man argument. “usage of a book to justify centuries of slavery”? That book was also used to denounce slavery, and the Second Great Awakening saw a large number of Christians rallying around the abolitionist movement. You’re lumping an entire group that consists of a large percentage of the world population into a jar that you represent with the actions of a group of misguided people. Any Christian with an ounce of knowledge of history would agree that not all actions of all Christians throughout all of history have been moral… but then, neither can that be said of all blacks/LGBT/Buddhists/etc

            I’m currently studying towards a PhD in engineering, and I can tell you that there is a large stigma against being Christian within the science community (even though science and religion ask fundamentally different questions… but that’s a conversation for another day). There may not be oppressive laws in place, but history shows that things change, and that may not always be the case. Christians have been oppressed for centuries (and as mentioned, continue to be oppressed in many parts of the world today). I’m not trying to claim that I feel oppressed or anything of that sort, I’m simply asking that you argue for equality and against oppression (something that I agree with you on) without resorting to attacking other groups that you don’t agree with.

          • Steph

            Let me preface by saying, I agree with everything you wrote. I would like you to consider the oppression of Christians may be seen in the US but outside of it Christians are persecuted. How the world treats Christians, past, present, and future, is something we must recognize and overcome. As a Christian I reject the idea of being identified with the oppressed person because I am not a victim, I am a child of God, an heir to the throne. I choose to serve the one true God.

          • Pastor Marcos

            That same book ended legalized slavery for the first time in Western Civilization, and has delivered freedom to millions of women and homosexuals, and you want to slander it?

            It’s too bad how you accept the points of the author, and yet your attitude seems hostile. What’s burdening you Triston?

          • Triston Gianni King

            My hostile attitude is the rampant dismissal of homosexual discrimination and violence that my people have to endure everyday. I do not agree with the Bible because is was written by men. Men who put words that ventured to make women subservient to men and be used only as their tools, despite proving themselves capable of performing any task a man can. Men who say homosexuality is a sin, justifying horrible aversion therapy, constant beatings and killings, and not providing a solution anywhere in the book. A book that says that slaves should be respectful to their masters, regardless of color, allowing white men to simply claim the name “master” and assuring their god given right as slave owners. Do I think the Bible has legitimate lessons to teach people to improve their lives? Absolutely. But the Bible has been manipulated far too many times for me to trust it’s words. I trust in the God that has allowed me to see the good in everyone, to forgive my enemies, and assists me in prospering through hardship. Not a book that works well for you if you are a rich white man with absolute beliefs.

          • lewrites

            Use the whole context of the “slaves, respect your masters” verse. It also goes on to say that masters should treat their slaves justly and fairly. Bible even says that if you beat a slave and he or she so much as loses a tooth, that slave goes free. A lot can be said for the original context in the Hebrew and Greek. The translation to English has left a lot to be desired.

          • Moriah

            You must know much about those who God used to write the Bible. They weren’t white, they didn’t have homes, much less money to own slaves. They traveled around helping churches, healing people, and were killed for their faith. This is historically proven, not just through the Bible. It was written during a time where THEY were being oppressed, and they said that you need to bless those who persecute you. So it is really baseless to say that they wrote it for self serving purposes.Also, the Bible talks all the time about loving your enemies, forgiving continuously, and giving grace to others. (Matthew 5:44; Matthew 18:21-23). I don’t mind that you don’t like Christianity and the fact that it doesn’t support your lifestyle, but that doesn’t mean you have to distort facts to make it justifiable for you to convince yourself that its okay that you don’t like it. I hold no Christian standards over homosexuals, if you aren’t a Christian then the problem is that you don’t have a relationship with Christ, not that you’re a homosexual.

          • LeeAnneTreetip

            well said, Moriah.

          • Michael Turner

            How do you know about that God except through that Book. What do you do with the parts of that book declaring God’s holiness. The holiness that cannot allow sinful lifestyles including homosexuality, adultery and any other sinful choices.

          • Claudette Riley

            I feel that Homosexuals shoud be thanking god and be grateful that they are living in a time where new legislates were put in place to protect them from bad minded people who think it is ok to make someone feel bad for how they look or how they are. Feel proud you can now walk on street hand in hand with a partner park with your partner, never having to hide and pretend who you are any more acting on tv being accepted into society. YOU said that u don’t believe in the bible like all gays express so my question is why is gays stiring controversy by manipulating the equality Act to be marrying in a building called church which has routinely and customarily as well as tradition has always been want to change to provoke anger in the community instead of inventing a gay wedding with your own tradition stamped on it rather then using it as a weapon to demoralize a communitys faith.IT IS OBVIOUS that people read bits of the bible because if they did they will find female leaders and queens that devised battle plans and strategies and used men like tools for battle ton conquer enemies or invade.It is written that the was to be the helper not a door mat which is now what men think women are because they lost the concept of the true value and worth of a woman throughout time of families losing their fathers and not having the fundamentals of knowing what does it take to be a man.People lie steal cheat in a hexosexual relationship and sleep with multiple partners that is sin as well as sleeping with your fathers wife would be.My point is your talking as if the bible is against gays only when it is a spiritual guide to mans understanding of world, life, nature, spirituality and being aware of what tools the enemy (Satan) uses to destroy and create havoc in your life and others

          • LeeAnneTreetip

            you say you trust in the God that has allowed you to see the good in everyone Triston, yet you are openly hostile towards Christians in your statements. You lump every Christian into one category and accuse them of things you obviously have no idea about, such as that the Bible is the rich white man’s book. Christianity started in the Middle East and traveled to Asia. You seem bitter at people judging you but that’s exactly what you’re doing.

          • Pastor Marcos

            Rampant dismissal? Everything you just claimed for victim status is mainstream political correctness straight from academia’s talking points of indoctrination. You poor, poor thing.

          • Paul

            So many religions are against homosexuality, so many cultures are against homosexuality, so are many regions of the world. So many homosexuals have repented and been delivered. And they have turned out to be enemy number one of gays just so they don’t propagate that one can actually be saved from such live style. May be we will start saying some are born adulterers, etc and so adultery be legalized.

          • AllahisOne Jones

            Have you ever been to any of these countries? or did you just hear about it on the media? lol

          • BV

            Nope, never been to any of these countries. I’ve also never been to Paris, but I know the Eiffel Tower is there. I’ve never been to London, but I know Big Ben is there. Etc etc etc.

          • Pastor Marcos

            I have. It’s real.

          • LeeAnneTreetip

            I have, I’ve been all over Asia and the Middle East and have seen entire Christian communities targeted by violent extremists, and in more subtle ways Christians are denied jobs in government, education, or politics in many of these countries where they require you to write your religion on your ID card.

          • AllahisOne Jones

            Good.

          • Duane

            its funny because gays are also oppressed in the same counties you named so….

          • BV

            and? so what? that proves nothing. I understand Triston to be arguing that the Christian community here in America cannot be subject to bigotry and intolerance. I disagree. It’s a classic move of arguments from Liberalism: define an “innocent” class and say that every criticism, real or perceived, against said innocent class from another class is, by definition, bigotry.

            With regard to the term “oppression,” my reference to Christians in other countries is probably irrelevant to the argument here. I probably shouldn’t have brought it up. I grant that. The reason I brought it up had more to do with a reflex that I have. When I hear someone say that Christians are not subject to “oppression,” I immediately think of what others are going through in foreign countries and I get defensive.

          • frogcrunch

            ” define an “innocent” class and say that every criticism, real or
            perceived, against said innocent class from another class is, by
            definition, bigotry. ”
            LOL no. There is a difference between criticism and denying someone’s humanity by viewing their identity as inferior. There is a difference between disagreeing with someone and questioning their right to even participate in the debate on an equal footing. Disrespecting someone’s right to be who they are is not criticism, it is oppression without qualifiers or scare quotes.

          • Duane

            if that restaurant said “whites only” why not just go to different restaurant. yeah, thats how dumb you sound….ignorance man is swear.

          • BV

            Your point has no relevance to mine. Litigation is extremely expensive, even if a gay-rights advocacy group did the work pro-bono. On the cost-benefit analysis, it would’ve been far easier just to ask another photographer to do the job. Going through the massive trouble of suing the photographer leads me to believe that the lawsuit was filed for retribution.

          • David Noah Parker

            its the principle of the matter. I’m sure they did find someone else to take the pictures. but in that state you legally cannot refuse a good or service because you disapprove of the customers sexual orientation and in one of the two examples brought up it was the state itself that filed suit not the scorned customer.

          • MC

            Um… Completely different. No one said the gay couple can’t buy a cake, can’t eat their cakes, can’t patronize their establishment, have cakes made for birthdays, holidays, etc. they just don’t make cakes for gay weddings because it goes against their religious beliefs. Would you sue a Jewish Deli because they refused to serve you pork?

          • pgus

            not a useful reply, since that deli would not advertize pork and I would bet that they would sell their food to a gay wedding.

          • David Noah Parker

            no but that’s a terrible example because a jewish deli wouldn’t sell pork to anyone, in the states where these lawsuits took place it is against the law to refuse goods and services that you would normally offer the public just because of someones sexual orientation. same as it would be illegal for a gay florist to deny flowers to tea-party conservative christian. besides where in the bible does it say to turn your back on the gays and make sure they know that you despise them…? refusing a wedding cake cause gay people creep you out and you think the bible doesn’t like what they do in their bedroom is pretty petty.

          • LeeAnneTreetip

            exactly. Even in America Christians are considered “less than” the “enlightened” atheist.

          • Is Ig

            Homosexuality is not just a sexual preference, but also a choice of who the person LOVE as a partner. When you hear someone say they knew they were gay at the age of six, it was not about sex, but attraction which comes in many forms. This six years old child notices that society does not like gay or gay mannerisms and starts to imprison their self mentally. Sometimes if any gay mannerisms show up in their walk, talk or expressions parents try to beat it out of them, worse to be disowned by love ones. If it shows up in public, they are taunted and/or beat up for it. Some can’t take the mental imprisonment and torture and commit suicide. To be gay is not only about sex, but also about mannerisms and choice…
            “The new black” or variation of this term is a term that has also been used by holocaust victims, genocide victims and apartheid victims. It seems to be the references to oppressions that are inhumane and unjust and are always compared to the American slavery and post slavery experiences. All of those experiences degree of evil are different and people should educate themselves about them, but the hurt and injustices are understood. The explanation and understanding of it should come from a place of love and empathy.

          • Dan Duncan

            IS…thanks for bringing this back to a place of Love. That is what Forth is and hopefully conversations that can educate all in Love and respect! I really appreciate you sharing!

          • Bettye Neely

            Science teaches that the human brain does not mature until 21. How does a 6 year old child know what is going on in the body? It is a parents responsibility to help the “child with a child’ brain” to understand what is happening to them physically and psychologically. Trinstan, the spirit of Rebellion causes us to do most things wrong and opposed to the SPIRIT. i understand and praying for you. You can’t receive Spiritual things in the natural. So it is wise to stop bad mouthing the Word of God. He took care of you when you did not even know it. And He is taken care of your lack of Spiritual Knowledge butt now. Start to really pray for wisdom. Homosexuality is based on rebellion and is against the first thing God said, “Be fruitful and Multiply” in the natural. You have to know why the enemy does not want that to happen. By the way, Christianity is not the only world religion that is against Homosexuality. Some countries kill. I am country girl and have watched the animals who have no brain. Even the animals will not attempt to have sex with the same sex as they ARE. Honestly I have seen it, and if one attempts to do that with the wrong animal, there is a FIGHT. In the flowering world, there must be a male and female. These are things that do not learn REBELLION and do not have a BRAIN. You get it.

          • Hobbes Deutsch Jr.

            when you’re ready to start thinking for yourself, lemme know. I’ve a lotta ‘splainin’ to do for ya.

          • Bettye Neely

            At 67 years of age, Masters Social Work, and 38 years of professional work, I guess I may have to start thinking for myself, Fool. What an idiotic comment. Splain on.

          • pgus

            Wow. I’m sorry but I did not picture a person of your age with that kind of background writing that kind of post. What gives? I hope that you proofread at work.

          • aurrevoirshoshanna

            Bettye – First of all a Masters of Social Work does not make you a scientist nor a psychologist let’s get that cleared up. What’s alarming is at 67 years of age you don’t know that there are countless proven cases of homosexuality occurring naturally in other species. Penguins and dolphins are at the top of the list. That’s 5th grade science. A simple Google search would debunk that. Are you telling me as a 6 year old child you didn’t think any boys were cute? You lost me when you started talking about the ‘Spirit of Rebellion’ that’s a very dated way of looking at the world. Don’t start quoting science like when the brain matures and then speaking in tongues in the next sentence – it doesn’t work that way. Just like little 8 year old girls can be attracted to Justin Bieber without being physically or mentally mature, so can little boys. It’s really that simple. What’s also alarming is you have a Masters in Social Work but you think animals have ‘no brain’. What? Are their skulls hollow? How are they able to eat, sleep, walk, run or reproduce with no brain? That’s weird. Maybe you can enlighten us on the social work point of view regarding that phenomenon.

          • Tasha Hines

            lol. yes, and furthermore, how are they able to follow commands, do tricks, be guide dogs or animals and save countless lives……if they have no brain.

          • Is Ig

            Having knowledge and having a mature brain does not take away from who you are from the onset. Are you telling me that everything you believe true about yourself before the age of 21 became false after 21? Maturity of the brain means that you have a better understanding. I am not a homosexual, but I know people who are. These are good people with “proper upbringing” who give back to society. True homosexuals (born that way), most of them hid what they felt out of fear and shame at a very young age. Who would out of just fun/pleasure claim a lifestyle where they would be persecuted, killed, imprison, beaten, suffer from depression, lose their love ones, in some instances commit suicide and at most go to hell. They probably did not know the extent of what they felt, but like hunger it was a strong reaction from within. I have seen children with feminine tendencies before they are three years old with parents trying to beat it out of them, but they can’t stop, because the DNA coding for that behavior is already set. It’s similar to mental illness sometimes you’re born with it. Nature is not perfect that is why we have natural disasters, some people are barren and can’t have children, but for those who can and are heterosexual, the population growth continues. We are due for an over population, so homosexuals are not threats to human extinction. Laws are there to keep a society civil. Law is rooted in love. Love is rooted in peace and harmony. Peace and harmony is rooted in respect, fairness and understanding. If you look at the laws of the ten commandments they are all about how to maintain peace by not disrespecting (fornication, adultery, lies), hurting (killing) or taking things that don’t belong to us (stealing, jealousy and envy) and laws about our reverence to God (no idolatry, keeping the Sabbath, not taking his name in vain). Jesus then came and said the commandment are good and right, but greater than it is love. Law abiding homosexual are not out to hurt, disrespect or steal from anyone. They mind their business and look to give and receive love. How is that bothersome to you if you are not a homosexual? All I hear from you is hate. As a former Christian who believes in a God, I find the bible has many contradictions, that is a whole other topic. I live by the words of the bible and other books that encourages love and peace. Hopefully on this topic one day your mind will be mature enough to grasp the understanding on the rights of homosexuals.

          • Michael Turner

            Science has proven that no one is born homosexual. There is no gene that makes one a homosexual like one is born black.

          • Tasha Hines

            Please cite your reputable source where science has proved that no one is born homosexual, that there is no gene that makes one homosexual. Thanks

            Being born homosexual and being born black are not synonyms /antonyms for one another. Being homosexual is a feeling, a fate, a compassion and attraction. Being black is obviously a race, a trait that you 100% get from your parents.

          • Name

            What science are you thinking of? Talking about God as if it exists suggests you do not actually use science. I’m sorry if can’t comprehend people knowing who they are attracted to but I knew when I was 8. When I was that age I also understood we had a heart many other things in our body. Maybe they taught you that you had a spirit in your body or some other nonsense, but don’t tell me what I do and do not know about myself just because of my age.

          • Sarah

            Science can only go so far as to justify things that have a physical cause. It must be Observable and Reproducable. The human mind cannot be studied in an accurate or precise context and neither can God, but that is not proof against their existence.

          • iLogos

            You shouldn’t make things up. There are over 1,500 different species that demonstrate bisexuality or homosexuality in nature with 500 different species having been the subject of various studies specifically on that topic. You have no clue about the subject. It’s fine, no one person can be an expert in everything, though polymaths will make it seem like they are.

            In this case you have made the mistake of believing the things you’ve been told rather than finding out for yourself or that your limited experience is somehow representative of all of nature.. Either way, you’re wrong. IT’s okay, mistakes are how we learn and grow, and the humility to accept being wrong and the grace to learn from it are what move us forward.

          • frogcrunch

            So you didn’t know your orientation until age 21 and did not attempt to have any intimacy with anyone until then? What a silly, silly thing to say.
            Also, I think you’ll find animals have brains. I think you’ll also find that scientists have documented homosexual behaviour in a multitude of animal species. There’s a bit more evidence out there than your country anecdotes.
            The fact that heterosexual activity produces offspring doesn’t mean there is a moral requirement for anyone to participate in heterosexual activity. Are you seriously telling me people should be forced to breed with no regard for attraction or individual choice? Some people are attracted to the opposite gender, some to the same, some to neither, some to all. Leave them be.

          • Tasha Hines

            Although most have become off topic when it comes to the original point of this post…

            Foremost, I don’t believe your age or educational background make your opinion any more or less valid.

            Your response is the exact reason why people like Tristan and other homosexuals feel the way that they feel. Just because you are a Christian and believe in the bible gives you no right to call someone a rebel because they believe differently than you, to tell someone what they do/do not feel or what is or isn’t possible. Just the same as an Atheist would have no right to just walk up to you and try to persuade you that God does not exist. There are many contradictions in the bible, many versions, many interpretations by man. “Be fruitful & multiply” The bible also says “Love thy neighbor” and “Do unto others, for what you would have them do to you”. I find that many Christians love to pick and choose the verses in the bible that are convent for them, and forget about the rest. I don’t believe the bible says, do unto others, for what you would have them do to you, (unless that person is gay),(unless that person is black) (unless that person is a criminal). No, i don’t believe it says that, but that is how “some” Christians percieve and use the bible against others. And that is not right, fair or GODLY as they would put it. Your opinion is your opinion, but as others have also stated your facts are very wrong. In response to “Science teaches that the human brain does not mature until 21. How does a 6 year old child know what is going on in the body? It is a parents responsibility to help the “child with a child’ brain” to understand what is happening to them physically and psychologically”>> you basically are saying “everything you believe true about yourself before the age of 21 became false after 21?”

            Yes, it is a fact that Christianity is not the only religion that denounces Homosexuality, that does not make it ok to treat homosexuals wrong or any different. Just the same as, Afganastan is not the only country that thinks women are less than, and should be treated as such.

            Lastly, as someone else also stated. Many animals have sex with the same sexes. Many animals are asexual, which means they can reproduce without the use of a male sperm. Therefore, they can also have sex with same species because heterosexual sex is not required to reproduce.

            I believe when Hobbes Deutsch Jr. said “when you’re ready to start thinking for yourself, lemme know. I’ve a lotta ‘splainin’ to do for ya.” They meant, to produce your own words & opinion instead relying on the bible, or your pastors interpretation of the words in the bible which you now believe because he told you so.

          • volade

            What about obese people. They are constantly mistreated in society and are usually the bud of many hurtful jokes. They also grow up struggling with depression because of it and have to deal with bullying all throughout their life. In the same way, some of them “can’t take the mental imprisonment and torture” and commit suicide.

            Not to mention that they get discriminated against at work places and are usually perceived to be sloppy and lazy even when they’re not. They are not attributed the same level of respect and acceptance as their thinner counterparts.

            So, are they to also qualified to be “the new black”?

          • frogcrunch

            Congratulations for discovering fatphobia and fat-shaming. No, it isn’t the new black just like nothing else is (no matter how much the article and you folks are trying to create that strawman), but yes, it is oppression and it is a serious issue.

          • Tasha Hines

            so off topic…..

            but you can’t put obesity in the same pot of oppression as being black, being homosexual, being christian or being jewish.

            under a small % of medical conditions, obesity can be involuntary. But for the most part, obese people become obese voluntarily. (eating unhealthy, not exercising, not taking care of your body/health). Even though I obviously do not agree with any type of discrimination, bullying or oppression, IN MOST CASES, being obese was a choice made by the person because of their lifestyle.

            That is far from the oppression of homosexuality as discussed earlier…

          • volade

            It’s not off topic. Its called drawing an analogy or making a correlation.

          • Kholt

            Homosexuality is sexual by definition. Most people cannot distinguish between “love” and “sex”. I can tell every man at my church that I love them and would lay down my life for them as much as I would any woman and not want to have sex with them.

            This is the fundamental flaw underlying this entire argument. As intelligent beings we can love without the need for sex or marriage.

          • Teniola Ajibola

            Not denying much of what you are saying.. But “Gays can never be the “new Black” for several reasons… Blacks were stripped from their Culture.. dehumanized.. and could not claim citizenship.. Homosexuals Have citizenship.. Homosexuals were not dragged from Homosexual Land (in Africa) to Progess and Promote Someone else’s country!!!.. Homosexuality is a Preference as you can see not everyone is Homosexual.. it is a choice..and I think Gays/liberals/Homosexuals want this Law to attract the same Level of Weight as African Americans Did in Our History and are still Doing Today ex. President Obama Being the First African-Black American President, Michelle Being the First Black -First Lady and their children in the White House. This is a means for Political injustice versus entitlement and what Other “American Citizens” Want.. Not what is Needed!.

          • James Adams

            people need to look at what’s going on in the Middle East believe me Christians are being persecuted killed tortured for being Christian in these days isn’t it time we open our eyes and started making this the conversation we need to get with our government officials and do something but no we sit back on our rear ends and say nothing about it

          • AllahisOne Jones

            what about the millions of muslims being killed by america and other foreign military’s? you people are stupid and sick dta

          • James Raymond

            This is where you lost me. As a Christian that loves people, all people, for who they are, AND in being part of a very large Christian community of people that I know share the same value, we feel attacked when people say that Christians hate gays. Untrue, unfair statement. We are not all from Westboro, there’s only less that 100 of them. Every time we turn on the t.v. or listen to the social issues going on, we’re constantly being told it’s wrong to be a Christian. But it’s socially acceptable to be Muslim because of freedom of religion? There are a small number of Christians “hating” gays, and there are likewise a small number of muslims killing, torturing, and enslaving people for not being muslim, and by the way let’s build a mosque at ground zero of the twin towers… But Christians are the bad guys. What do muslims think of homosexuality? What do Jewish people think of homosexuality? The Bible only addresses homosexuality in the Old Testament which is the Jewish Torah… But Christians are the targets. Trust me dude, we feel like targets just as much as you do. I mean you have the most powerful voice in the world on your side… hollywood… hollywood hates us, sooooo much. And that hurts. They misrepresent us every time they try to represent us, and we have no way of defending ourselves because their voice is so big and loud. But let me say this… I’m really, truly, deeply sorry for how you feel you’ve been treated. I believe you are an extremely valuable son of a King that loves you so incredibly much and so unconditionally. I will never put myself in a position of hating gays or trying to make it feel like it’s me against you.

          • aurrevoirshoshanna

            Are you really going to use this as an opportunity to talk about the imaginary ‘victimization’ of Christians in modern American society? As if 73% of the United States population wasn’t Christian? Hello! Wake up. Christians are the religious majority and while you may not be the one doing it personally American Christians do have a history of oppressing people whether you want to admit it or not. America was founded on the grounds of freedom from religious persecution in Britain yet many still call it a ‘Christian Nation’. You can’t prosecute a majority. Don’ try to shift the blame. It doesn’t matter what the Muslims or Jews think about homosexuality when the majority of the people voting at the poles are Christians. Christians are the ones strongest in opposition to gay marriage because they hear the word marriage and think it’s part of the ‘gay agenda’ to destroy to ever so sacred sanctity of marriage though the divorce rate is hovering around 40-50%. They’re voting on a religious grounds and completely ignoring that marriage is a LEGAL contract in the United States that comes with certain rights and benefits. Most gays don’t care whether or not ‘God’ recognizes their marriage. They just want to be afforded the same legal rights that same-sex couples get from marriage. ‘We’re constantly being told being Christian is wrong’ – is that a joke? That has to be a joke. I can’t. You sound like one of those straight white males that gets sad when people tell them they live a privileged life and then they cry about it in their Lexus on the way to the golf course. The point is not to get defensive because you have a privilege – the idea is to be aware of it and how it affects others.

          • whoisyoutoday

            Marriage is a religious rite and has been for centuries. I don’t understand when people talk down on God and the Bible then turn around and want a religious ceremony. If you as homosexual couple can find a priest or state official to perform a wedding for them, then so be it. Otherwise, if having the same governmental recognition or privileges that heterosexual couples have, maybe changing the law in that respect would serve better. Attacking Christians and their beliefs is misguided; at best.

          • aurrevoirshoshanna

            As I stated above. With respect to the American Constitution marriage is not a religious contract but a legal one. It is secular in nature, meaning muslims, jews and atheists can be married in the United States even though they’re not Christians. Am I explaining myself clearly?The government does not recognize the LEGAL ramifications of same-sex marriages and Christians keep voting against it because they think homosexuals want to partake in the religious aspect when that is absolutely not the case. Do you understand this? The government has yet to offer an alternative that has the same governmental recognition and privileges in most states…

          • aurrevoirshoshanna

            In layman’s terms let’s forget the word marriage. Instead let’s call it ‘knotting’. Straight people can knot and gay people cannot knot. Straight people receive certain benefits from ‘knotting’ and gay people don’t feel equal because they do not receive those benefits. ‘Knotting’ also happens to be a word in the Christian bible. Christians don’t like homosexuals. Homosexuals say they would like to knot and Christians automatically think homosexuals want to desecrate their ancient religious tradition of ‘knotting’. Homosexuals are confused because they have no interest in the religious tradition of ‘knotting’. They don’t understand why Christians think they do. The homosexuals are referring to the ‘knotting’ that is recognized by the government that gives them the same LEGAL rights as their straight peers. They don’t understand why Christians think they are the only ones who can knot when the constitution isn’t a religious document but a legal one. Christians assuming that they own the legal practice of ‘knotting’ is misguided; at best.

          • Marjolein Reynolds

            They asked for a service, but were denied. No money changed hands.

          • LeeAnneTreetip

            Christians are constantly targets of discrimination and bigotry, the entire media does nothing but try to paint a picture of Christians as crazy zealots, “Jesus Freaks,” while the media openly accepts and celebrates the LGBT community. All over the world Christians are persecuted, harassed, ostracised and murdered. For you to say otherwise shows your complete ignorance for anyone or anything other than yourself.

          • David Noah Parker

            they were sued because the states that they were in had laws preventing for-profit businesses from refusing service based on sexual orientation. if the businesses had decided that they “just didn’t like these people for no particular reason” than they would have been off the hook but in those states you cannot because you the shop keeper are a christian simply decide that you are going to withhold a good or service from a costumer because they are or may be LGBT. simple as that.

      • Hobbes Deutsch Jr.

        He made an intelligent, insightful response and actually got you caring about gays. Way to smoothly and quickly take away his steam and silence his unorthodox facts.

      • Duane

        because you are a bigot. if you were opposed to interracial marriage. you’re a bigot. same. damn. thing. thats the point

    • Stephen Rollins II

      The author’s credentials explain why he clearly is one-sided on the situation. I am a gay black male and this article was very offensive, rude, and ignorant. Historically, homosexuals have it worse if you ask me.

      • Lola Baker

        “Historically, homosexuals have it worse if you ask me”. Please explain.

        • Daniel McClendon

          I agree, Stephen. To avoid being dismissed as “one-sided” yourself, please help us understand your position.

      • Rich

        You can hide the fact you’re homosexual. You cannot hide your skin color. So close your mouth, and open your mind.

      • James Flack

        Because you were there during the slave times.

      • Shammerz

        ….black babies were stolen and used as alligator bait…..

      • Paul

        Hmmmmn so amazing how people go out of their ways to explain how their illogical cravings should be excused by force or by whatever.

    • AllahisOne Jones

      lol stop it man. being gay is illogical with your body. FACT. you wouldnt know what gay was if someone didnt teach you

      • Duane

        ignorance and bigotry running amuck…

      • aurrevoirshoshanna

        Lol man you’re so right. All gay people went to gay school and our gay teachers taught us all how to be gay! Now let me cement my point by saying FACT. And yeah man it’s so illogical. That’s why there are so many gay dolphins and gay penguins too. Because they went to gay school and they were taught how to be gay too. Also all the gay people getting killed in Africa? Lol, yeah man they still wanted to be gay because they thought it would be cool and fun to be tortured and killed. Same for the ones in Russia. It all seems just so fun to be gay you know? Sometimes your family hates you and people bully you. But nah man it doesn’t matter it just seems like a cool choice you know? Spice life up. Maybe get killed. Also the prostate (male g-spot) is located in the male’s anus. But yeah it’s illogical with your body man. It’s there but nothing’s ever supposed to touch it. Yeah man. lol man. *this was all sarcasm in case you couldn’t tell and I have to put this disclaimer because your comment indicates that you probably couldn’t*

    • Katie

      Triston, thank you for your comment. While I agree the gay struggle and the black struggle are two different things, I do believe the author could have articulated more clearly the homosexual side.

    • PrettyGirlw5pearls

      That’s all wonderful, but check it out. I don’t have a CHOICE on showing my skin color. My ancestors didn’t have the choice to be discreet about their skin color. My people were hung and burned alive, and STILL are looked down upon, and not because of something they could keep in the privacy their own homes. Your HUMAN RIGHTS will never be questioned or taken away. Don’t you dare try to compare the two on anything other than a surface level!

      • Triston Gianni King

        I shouldn’t have to “keep it in the privacy” of my home, love is an ever encompassing part of public life, not just private. You don’t just hid your boyfriend in your house when you go home, do you?
        And I agree that most gay discrimination does not start at birth.
        So I should be complacent that my human rights to employment, child care, and a multitude of other rights are denied just because it starts later in life? Is there an age where discrimination is better than some other?

      • Lecrazy

        I’m a gay man, and honestly, I’d rather just have my sexuality branded on my face than having to hide it. Not comparing to being black at all, but I’d rather just get it out there than have the pain and internal suffering that comes with living in the closet in a religious house (my dad’s a pastor). Keeping it a secret has affected my mental and emotional health, and continues to, to this day. It’s an awful feeling.

    • Gee Hawk

      Overall, I really disagree with comparing anybody’s struggle against someone else…The plight of being a woman is uniquely different than being a man…Being poor is very distinctly different than being rich…In one example we are talking sexism, in the other example we are talking social class…Both fall in a bowl or category, but the struggle is very different…The issue of homosexual rights versus racial rights is very distinct in America because the struggle is no where close to being the same…There is not a country where a European can go and snatch a gay person from their land and cohort forced labor…Never has happened on the basis of being gay…There has never been a Constitution struggle on whether or not Gay people should be citizens…Never happened…The fight to want to “marry” is curious to me because of what “marriage represents…Marriage has long been associated with Christianity, and for a homosexual couple to want to participate in something that is formally opposed to this lifestyle is mind boggling to me…Anyone has the RIGHT to LOVE whomever they choose, but it is not a right to marry anyone who you choose. If that were so then we must logically open the door to every one who wants to marry their desires…Children, adolescents, inanimate objects…If you say that is silly, imagine how a heterosexual person feels when we hear that a man wants to wed another man…I often wonder if the federal government said, “you can have all the rights of a married couple but yo have to call it something else other than “marriage” I wonder if there would still be a fight?

      • aurrevoirshoshanna

        MARRIAGE IS A LEGAL CONTRACT. Why is that so hard for people to understand? Think! What a pompous thing to say marriage has long been associated with Christianity. So you think all the Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, Jews, Kabbalah and whatever else couples in the United States get married because they want to become Christian?! NEWS FLASH:NOPE! They get married so they can claim their spouse on taxes and get the legal benefits that being married affords you. Gay people DO NOT CARE about God, or Christianity. We care about the LEGAL aspect of marriage. Marriage is NOT only a Christian right in the United States and it’s so infuriating that Christians think they have a monopoly on it. Marriage is also a legally binding contract between 2 CONSENTING ADULTS. LOGICALLY children are not adults and inanimate objects cannot consent… am I missing something here? The entire POINT of the gay marriage debate is that Civil Unions DO NOT legally afford you the same rights as marriage. It’s not a matter of what it’s called it’s a matter of the rights it represents. You could call it whatever the hell you want I guarantee the ‘fight’ would be over as soon as something allows us to have the same rights. Furthermore it’s curious to me that you’re advocating we make a new law with all the rights a married couple can have but call it something different. To me that sounds like you can’t drink from my water fountain you need to have your own water fountain. But I digress.

    • Gaye Bri Moore

      The point however, is that you cannot begin to compare the two struggles. It really is an insult to hear someone say they want to compare their love for their partner as synonymous as being enslaved, emotionally, institutionally and I would say even to this day. The struggles are NOT the same. Don’t have a problem with saying you struggle but to equate it to black slavery….NOT

  • Alex Willis

    I would also like to add that while homosexuals complain about having to hide who they truly are in a closet the only way a black person could hide who they truly are is by actually hiding in a physical closet, because black is not something you can pretend you’re not the only way to avoid persecution is to avoid other human beings. Black people do not even have the luxury of hiding who they truly are as they walk down the street

  • Lisa

    The first laws against black people in the newly formed USA were laws against marriage, which then extended to laws against owning property, and then laws of segregation, and then slavery. It was not always the case that slavery existed first in the USA, that came after oppressive laws against the family and children of mixed marriages. It’s also important to remember that Hitler didn’t begin his campaign against Jewish people until he had already attempted to restrict who could marry whom, had systematically exterminated gay people, and the mentally ill. So although holocaust, genocide, ethnic cleansing and slavery may appear as the singular atrocity how people view the other is a common thread and should not be weighted as one having more or less merit than another. Human suffering in any form should never be compared.

  • SKD

    i’m reading “homosexuality is better than being black.” shit like this only creates more divides

  • Jonna Rakowski

    How stupid are you! Its human rights for everyone! The only reason non of this happens today is cause it was put an end to with Jim Crow law. (and it still does happen) Have to not ever heard of gay bashing? How about those who get things like “Fag” wrote on there property? how about the stupidity of Americans saying everything is “Gay” for something that is bad? Its the same thing as someone writing “Nigger” on a door or burning a cross. Its racism no matter how you put it its still putting someone down for who they are and who God made you. The only difference is 50 years in culture. Telling 2 men or 2 women they cant marry their love cause they are of the same sex is like saying someone who is white cant marry someone who is black. When you take an Xray were all the same. So who cares let people love each other. What the bible says its wrong? The bible also says men are superior, you cant work on Sunday and you can beat your wife cause shes is your property. Lets face it we are a bunch of Racist who are doomed cause we cant all just learn to love one another. God says to love your neighbor there isn’t a clause that says “only if there a strait white male” and that we are all made in Gods eye- unless you want to say God makes mistakes. So tell me again how the Gay movement is different than the civil rights movement? hell Ill even say its the same as the women’s rights movement! that’s right the only difference is 50 years, sex and color… EQUAL RIGHTS FOR EVERYONE

  • J Matic Poptrunkent

    TRUE ….. THEY ARE OUT OF LINE WITH THAT COMPARISON

  • Hiram Diaz

    This is a powerful piece. Thanks for your clear and solid argumentation :)
    -h.

  • iLogos

    There are a number of logical fallacies committed in this article, and some simple errors and flaws in logic. Brother Thomason, homosexuals in this country have had had their children taken from them as well as being arrested and committed simply for being gay.

    Neither of us have experienced any aspect of the slave days or Jim Crow, though we have both dealt with the legacy behind it. Homosexuals deal with their own struggles, dehumanization, and systemic bigotry.

    The Civil Rights, as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said, are for ALL people. If one of us is not free, none of us are free. The same flawed logic and hateful ideology is being used against them as was used against us. Rather than pointing out the ways their struggle today is different than our struggle 50 years ago, 150 years ago, or 300 years ago, why not point out the similarities we experience in treatment today. We should be making common cause with all oppressed people in this country to make it a better and brighter place.

  • Chris Williamson

    Great article. Can’t wait to read all 95 of your points. I don’t think there would be a comparison on whether or not “gay is the new black” if the black sons and daughters of the civil rights movement did not give basis to the comparison in the first place. It’s no secret that homosexuality has been an approved in the same place that the civil rights movement was birthed, and that is, in the African American local church. Because blacks in the church (and in today’s gospel music) tend to remain silent and accepting of the gay lifestyle, the church has lost her voice on this issue. This opens the door for McKlemore to say what was said and for Queen Latifah to do what she did. When Donnie McClurkin made a stand against the homosexual lifestyle which he once embraced, he found himself out on a limb all by himself and shunned from participating in the MLK ceremony last year. He had no backing from the black church because it is unwilling to stand up for fear of being “whipped” by society. The answer for social change still lies in the church, but we have allowed the world to walk all over us.

  • Charlene Mozee

    Thanks for this intelligent and considerate analysis of this absurd premise of a connection between the African-American journey and the homosexual lifestyle. Only a misguided mind would dare to make such a comparison.

  • Bettye Neely

    I totally agree.

  • RD

    excellent discourse – there’s hope for America’s future

  • Numinus

    i haven’t read all the comments, so i’m sure i’m repeating what alot of ppl have already said. but maybe that’s necessary to get it through some of our heads:
    this is a bad article. homosexual is NOT “the new black.” almost everything said in this article is true on some level. but it’s totally ruined by its failing to acknowledge the commonalities of the experiences of african americans and the experiences of homosexuals. both groups are oppressed people.

  • mim5677

    I can’t be the only person who finds it ridiculous that a music synonymous for using similes, metaphors, and analogies for as long as it’s been around, is being taken so literally. Stretch your brains out a little bit guys.

    If you really dig deep which is what I assume the purpose of this article is all 5 of these points don’t apply to modern to modern black Americans and if we are using context to frame this debate I certainly hope that we would use a context that at least a few people can relate to. I’d bet money that the only place the 100 plus people commenting on this thread have seen a coloreds only sign is in a museum. None of you have ever experienced anything remotely close to slavery, so I don’t see why we get to claim those atrocities as a comparison point.

    In the context of the modern civil rights struggle there are certainly differences between the two movements but this is like some silly contest to see who has it worse and the reality is that is a lowest common denominator type of argument.

    Instead of trying to push people away, recognize that black people were not the first to see oppression and won’t be the last and be assured in knowing that without the struggles and examples of oppressed people before you, the damage cause by your own oppression would be much worse.

    Don’t be petty folks, embrace the hard work that was done and be glad that others won’t have to work as hard as the people before you to gain that equality that the people BEFORE YOU!!!!, fought for.

    • Dan Duncan

      Interesting thoughts Mim! Thankful for them! I will say that I have had conversations where I took your exact same stance and left questioning my position as I had no idea how institutionalized segregation still can be. I am white clearly, and need to admit, as much as I don’t want to, that the white upperclass man owns the board, and generally wants to maintain the status quo ie putting down everyone that would be different(both black and LGBT in this case would apply.) While I am thankful for Adam to be brave enough to start the conversation I am thankful that you are pushing us past the conversation to can be done going forward to gain freedom for all people! LOVE THAT! Thankyou again! Your thought process made me think, and that is why we created this place…to put your own position aside and try to understand others!

  • David Roy

    Well it’s as simple as this, the Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord! He doesn’t hate the sinner but he does hate the sin. God destroyed Sodom and Demora for sexual sins. It’s not something you are born with because then you say God makes mistakes and he doesn’t. It’s a choice you make for what ever reason the same as growing up to be a killer or whatever!

  • Autumn

    When you put it in historical context, yes. African Americans had it much more different than gays. When you see people refer to “gay is the new black” I automatically assume that it is because of the struggle to gain rights/fight for freedom. The reasons and the struggle may be different but the end result is very similar. This comes from a comment in this article: “I can understand and sympathize that African-Americans have not been discriminated in the same way as the LGBT Community. This does not mean, however, that the LGBT community hasn’t been and is to this day still discriminated against.” I personally wouldn’t compare my struggles to those of an African American a few decades ago, but I certainly would not over-think it when I heard someone else say “gay is the new black” because they probably aren’t putting that much into consideration before saying it. Or elaborating what they mean, for that matter.

  • Autumn

    To David:

    So when did you choose to be straight? And would you have the same thought process if no one ever put a bible in your hand? Don’t ever compare someones lifestyle to those of a “killer or whatever” UNLESS THEY CAUSE THAT KIND OF HARM TO PEOPLE. Kind of the point of this whole article too?

    1. Just because you have a religion that does not agree with homosexuality doesn’t mean you can interfere with everyone else who does not share the same beliefs as you. We don’t all read from the same book, and some of us don’t even read the book. It’s kind of like stopping someone from going into a bakery, telling them not to buy anything because YOU’RE on a diet.

    2. If you believe it’s an abomination or not, it’s my life. If you think you are in the safe zone and going to heaven or whatnot – Good for you. Let me enjoy my life and go to hell or whatever.

    3. Instead of spending your time interfering with the homosexual stuff (which is really none of your business unless you are gay or close to a gay person), why not spend your time teaching and praying about people in the world who are actually suffering and killing others in the world. Why waste your time trying to shove the bible down the throat of thousands if not millions of people who are completely harmless and just want to be with the person they love. What happened to religion spreading a positive influence around the world teaching of love and forgiveness for all? Now all of this, “you disgusting abomination have fun in hell” kind of talk.

    4. Are you gay? Then you have no right to say it’s a choice. Choice or not – it is none of your business. If you want to tell me what I did on April 16th, 1994… Go for it. I doubt you’ll get it right though because you don’t know me, and you weren’t around me when it happened. So tell everyone that their sexuality is a choice. Why don’t you prove me wrong and choose to be gay for a day? If you weren’t so far up the bible you still wouldn’t be able to do it because that is not WHO YOU ARE.

    5. You RESPECT yours, I will RESPECT mine.

  • Josh Sullivan

    Great article. Thank you.

  • TiffyG

    Great article

  • http://joshlsullivan.com/ Josh Sullivan

    Great article. Thank you.

  • http://www.beyondtheshadesofgray.org/ Dean Bailey

    I am so glad that black men and women of faith are speaking out truthfully and boldly on this issue! As a “white” voice of influence in a world like this, which tends to view things through its own racially motivated perceptions, I well realize that we need these voices of influence speaking out, and I thank God for each one of them!

    Homosexuality is not the new black or the “new” anything! It is the same old abomination that it has always been since the days of old, in all the ways that it completely takes over the life of a person who becomes caught in its claws. That is not to say that we don’t have compassion on those who fall under that dark influence of evil. It is simply to recognize that this particular sin is still utterly sinful!
    (Romans 1:18-32 & 7:13)

  • David

    I keep reading people saying that gay people do not have the right to marry. What a lot of people don’t understand is that the fight is for additional rights. See gay people have all of the rights that I have, they can marry a woman just as much as I can, and can’t marry someone of the same sex just as much as I can. Now the fight of whether it is right or wrong is a different story, but the argument has no footing, because you have the same rights as the person who stands next to you. It is additional rights, which African/ Americans did not have, they were 100 percent a lesser person than Whites.

  • Jerome Williams

    The only two things that Black and Gay people relate is that they are proud of what they are and that they serve as a minority. Gay isn’t the new Black and vise-versa. One can’t simply prove a point that is agreed with by random people on a comment board. Just know Adam Thomason is more than likely a proud Black man who respects his heritage. He was just stating that there is no comparison between Gays and Blacks. If there was, then everyone would be in agreement. You can’t change being Black no matter what you do. Bleaching skin doesn’t change anything. Mackelmore is a man who wants money so the more support he has from the gay community helps. He is just like these Black rappers that make club songs like, “My Nigga” the same artists who are thugs are making songs out there so that other races of people who wouldn’t usually listen have a opportunity to say Nigga. Fight for your rights but keep the African American race out of it. I’m not a supporter of the Gay thing but everyone should have rights. Seeing things like this is making me wonder if you will get that support. Good luck.

    • Jack Ross

      “The only two things that Black and Gay people relate is that they are proud of what they are and that they serve as a minority.”

      ^ hit the nail on the head.

  • Micaela Hernandez

    Just because it isn’t said, doesn’t mean it’s not implied. And while we might not see them hung on a structure itself, we see them around all the time. I have seen it posted outside someone’s home before, on their property “no queers allowed”. And yes society does make us feel like we’re not worthy in EVERY ASPECT. There are so many rude people out there (my mother included) who actually believe gay is a disease that can be given just by being in the presence of a homosexual. 2. Maybe not in mass numbers, no. But it is out there. All of these points you have stated yes, we don’t see these in the masses, but that does not mean it has not and is not happening. I went to school with a girl, who liked girls, through some drama, ended up getting pregnant by a guy, wanted to be with her girlfriend, and the parents took away her baby and gave it up for adoption because they didn’t want the baby growing up to be like her. And while we’re not torn away from birth, most get shunned away from friends and family when comming out, forcing others to stay in denial, or in the closet in fear of losing the ones they love. Seeing as how states have passed legal gay marriage it has now become unconstitutional for our marriages to not be legal in other states. Alas, it is, for now. And as for being beat like cattle and treated like an animal no. Have you even looked for murder cases involving homosexual hate crimes? I don’t remember the name of the guy now, but he was brutally beaten for 5 hours before left to bleed to death and then the group of guys that did it went out to eat pancakes afterwards. I can only imagine the number of hate crimes on record for homosexuals over the decades, not to mention ones off record. A friend of mine was beaten and put int the hospital because some guys just wanted to beat up a gay guy. Going out the bars with gay friends, we hear things like “faggot”, “gay”, “queer” almost every time. The times are different. Slavery is a thing of the past, as horrible a past it was. And I’m black, so there’s no way we can get anti-semetiv here. I am also Mexican, but I’m not bringing up anything from the Mexican slave trade wich in lieu of this conversation is completely unfair because Africans weren’t the only one’s who had a holocaust. But that’s an entirely different argument.

  • Micaela Hernandez

    Since were getting biblical here, Dean Baily, you must also be anti-semetic?…Did you disobey your parents when you were a child, then you sir are a sinner! Jesus died on the cross for our sins. So let us love who we want on this earth and let us be judged in our afterlife. Who are you to play god and deny us a happy and joyful life? It is up to God and God only if we get into heaven. Love thine neighbor it clearly states in the bible. Even you your words of sin go against his wishes. If you want to speak that biblical shit, shame on you! There is no fucking way you have obeyed the word of the lord and are not a sinner yourself. So for you to point the finger and call homosexuals sinners, remember, there are 3 pointing back at you.

  • Millard Kinnison

    Simply amazing…..the ‘victim’ card played every time someone makes a queer upset. Queers are the most unhappy people in the world. They simply want to be coddled. They are no longer children…just a child in a grown ups body. Time to put away childish things and grow the hell up.

  • Forreal

    While I will be the first to say the slogan “Gay is the new Black” is utterly ridiculous, I do think ADThomason doesn’t go far enough in his article to name the atrocities that do occur to LGBT individuals daily. When he says “percieved inequalities” what is he implying? That not being able to marry the person you love, or sit next to them as they die in a hospital isn’t a genuine inequality? MLK said, “An injustice ANYWHERE is a threat to just EVERYWHERE.” Corretta Scott King was a huge supporter of the LGBT civil rights movement because she understood that there is no hierarchy of oppression. That a civil right is a civil right regardless. You know who is laughing at this whole debate that is happening here? People with BOTH white and heterosexual privilege who would (ab)use that privilege to maintain a system that keeps us all down! While we sit here dividing ourselves, let’s not forget there are people who are both gay AND black. Read Audre Lorde’s “There’s no hierarchy of oppression.”

  • Assata

    Gay people have been discriminated against and dehumanized in all of those ways except the slave trade. Just as racism is more cleaver today so is homophobia so you won’t see straight only signs but you will see laws protecting heterosexual relationships and destroying gay families. Gay people were in the Holocaust and gay children have been sent away to corrective camps and the such. Gay people are beating, burned,and brutality murdered everyday. I sympathize with Black civil rights movement not only because I’m a part of it but because all persons deserve equality and for those very same reasons I know gay rights parallel civil rights.

  • AllahisOne Jones

    Being gay is illogical with the human body. FACT. how can you procreate? You wouldnt know what gay was if no one showed you and turned you out

  • John Burris

    We also have extremists from both parties that want to label GW Bush or Obama or somebody else as Hitler. To compare a modern day Western politician to a leader responsible for MILLIONS of unnecessary deaths is EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE to Jews who died in the camps and the soldiers who fought the Nazis.

  • fyre brand

    Umm, no. — We (as African-Americans) don’t *explicitly* face any of the points in your article either – today. No one is discounting the history….but how many people wake up *each* morning sad and directly and explicitly affected by the fact that 200 hundred years ago their ancestors (not relatives) suffered through X and Y. No one’s arguing that there’s not INDIRECT effects, or that we don’t still STRUGGLE daily for a basic place in U.S. society, but I don’t go out today (in the U.S.) and have any one with laws against me – social gains denied, yes, but not laws. Homosexuals DO have such laws against them, so your whole article assumptions are off. For the record, history shows us that homosexuals have existed since the beginning of time – definitely prior to the U.S. slave trade. As an invisible minority forced to “keep quiet” and not “live” freely and equally in every society —it’s highly presumptuous of you to even attempt to quantify one set of pains vs. another. We should give them empathy, not throw more salt on their wounds by trying to dictate whose hurt is bigger.

    I challenge you sir to expand your thought base —in other countries in and outside the U.S. gay people do wake this way – legally denied. There are LAWS on the books that don’t recognize them – marriage, medical insurance coverage, child custody, property ownership, medical power of attorney over their loved ones, jobs, access/entrance….(you know only *little* minute things and basic rights) explicit legal disadvantages that existed for black folks 200 years ago, but that sit on gay people’s door steps RIGHT NOW.

    Did you not see the leadership of the SOCHI Winter 2014 Olympics had to EXPLICITLY change laws to allow gay competitors to attend and access the area? Did you not see that the security for SOCHI is more than double of other Olympics from BOTH terrorist threats and the EXISTING extreme discrimination of visible minorities and homosexuals that occurs in Russia. Did you not see how the families of gay athletes are being told to stay home to avoid potential violence? Did you not see how the SOCHI government leadership said publicly that although “he would allow” gay people to come and compete that he wanted these athletes to “stay away from SOCHI children”. …..no, no one’s explicitly denying them or blocking them a d*mn thing.

    I have long had a global career and traveled to all parts of the world. That travel has never happened without a strong insistence of the monitoring “the LIST” of countries, cities and towns where I would not be SAFE on sight and could be in danger of not just not getting food or service, but in danger of literally being beaten, smacked, jailed unjustly or otherwise physically assaulted. Do you know that when I read these lists, 9 times out of 10 the list of “those who should be cautious” in little town X ALSO includes “homosexuals or those who could be perceived as homosexuals” along with people of color like myself? #BroadenYourKnowledgeBaseHomie

    In other countries (especially communist countries and religious extreme-led countries) homosexuals ARE put to death (by law) and there are laws and rules that directly ban homosexuals from joining certain groups or being allowed to LIVE in certain areas or HOLD certain jobs —its kind of ridiculous for you to claim what you did.

    Even in the U.S. itself, it was only recently that “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” in the military and edicts from NATIONAL groups like the Boy Scouts of America were REMOVED or ceased —this actually happened in current homosexual people’s LIFETIME –not to their ancestors, they SAW it. They SEE it.

    They DO have laws right NOW in multiple states that say gay people can’t marry the ones they love, that gay parents don’t have rights over the children they raised or BIRTHED or that they have no rights over property they purchased jointly because OF their being gay (the cause of their discrimination). Their legal union as a couple is not recognized (again, the reason they’re being discriminated against is who they love) ….does anyone remember 200 years ago when our less than human status dictated we (African-Americans) couldn’t own property, that we had no rights over our children, that we couldn’t marry, that we couldn’t dictate life or death decisions over the ones we loved —wait didn’t a certain author just write about that and say that doesn’t happen for gay people? Not so, my friend. We, as African-Americans suffer the social after effects of such laws and institutionalized thought patterns, homosexuals suffer the LIVE reality of such LAWS.

    Also, gay people (and black folks) similarly have something that is a phenomena of our time that didn’t exist years ago — SOCIAL MEDIA. Social Media promotes and insulates cowards — you don’t have to be overt with your hate any more — you can just go throw up a fake username and start terrorizing some family or some guy who let it slip that he likes other guys. Social Media allows people to discriminate without being overt through slurs, insults and name-calling without having to be LIVE and PUBLIC with their unease with gay people’s rights. They don’t have to have to put up a SIGNS on the bathrooms in the U.S. (while they DO have anti-gay and anti-black signs and laws in other countries) — these actions make gay people hide or be shunned and attacked, not speak up or be shunned and attacked, not share pictures of their lifestyle or be shunned and attacked. In short, live as a “less than”.

    And speaking of bathrooms, do you know that in MANY states in the U.S. openly gay people have had co-workers and school mates PROTEST against their use of bathrooms? That some schools and work places have had to designate alternate bathroom facilities for these people because others “didn’t feel comfortable” sharing the PUBLIC versions…..but no, homosexuals have no clue and can’t compare to black suffering.

    Gay people also have the unfortunate CHOICE (side-eye) of potentially passing through life as straight (read: “white”) to get away from the effects of such treatment. As VISIBLE MINORITIES we never had that crisis of conscience unless we were light enough to pass. They sit in rooms and listen to people talk about their group in derogatory terms and keep quiet in order to maintain peace in their lives. They take advantage of laws that those who don’t hide suffer through. Sound familiar? (Yes, sir, master sir, we sure is stupid). If they “pass”, they deny themselves and live in shame — not unlike our ancestors (and some current folks) who chose to do the same.

    Lastly, do you know that I hesitated to EVEN WRITE this response to your article for FEAR of the backlash and potential association with being gay? I am fully heterosexual, but that old “one drop” rule is alive and well. “One ounce” of suspicion in the public eye of being homosexual and you are branded for life…..but their pain is not comparable to ours, right?

    Hatred is hatred. Pain is pain. *I* believe its silly and short-sighted to try and assign “levels” to that pain. I know this piece was written to stir/draw discussion, but really not sure what it accomplishes but just another piece of digital ‘journalism’ that some homosexual person is sitting in the dark crying over. Good job. My $0.02

    Signed,

    A heterosexual, African-American lady who’s sick of people stepping on others’ necks in order to get their 15 minutes.

    • Daniel McClendon

      Just want to point out that Adam wrote this article because Michael Gross was comparing one people’s pains to another’s when he said “gay is the new black”. Gross made a comparison that Adam felt was unfair. And now you’re saying that it is unfair for Adam to only attempt to bring light to that comparison. It was in no way an effort to diminish or dismiss the struggle of homosexual people, or to make them cry in the dark.

      Let’s be fair to those submitting articles here. Please respond in kind to what he said and not something he didn’t.

      • fyre brand

        I respectfully disagree. He put his opinion out there in public in broad strokes and now (as intended) has his article being shared and gone viral. It is hurting folks. Adam’s article was also unfair because it was deeply one-sided. How do people feel when their POV in life is ignored and belittled: hurt, pissed, mad, sad, defeated.

        His basic premise is African-American pain is greater and more in-depth than that of homosexual people. Sorry to enlighten you, but to say that DOES make people cry and feel sad or badly about their lives. Especially when they may have thought they had previously felt a kinship with a similarly disenfranchised people. To have one of said people say, say – “your pain can’t compete with mine” is insensitive and too broad a stroke to paint.

        My perspective is based on my life experiences, so I’m assuming that goes without saying that his perspective is based on his life experiences. I’ve never had more enlightening (and self-affirming) conversations and debates than those I’ve had with some non-minority homosexuals who finally “get it” when it comes to discrimination. They can’t even love – the most basic of human emotions.

        Also, I’ve never felt worse as an African-American watching minority homosexuals be shunned and ostracized by their own community as a double-minority – when for those that are discriminated against, that’s usually all they have left as their baseline – their own ethnic community.

        Its a lose-lose situation all around. I support positive people and ideologies. I can hold healthy discussions (of differing opinions) with anyone as long as it has a positive uptick. I didn’t see any of that in his article and responded in kind.

  • Villa

    There was a thing called the Gay Liberation Movement. It is a contemporary of the CRM and Women’s Lib. Look up Stonewall.

    Further, this article cherry picked a statement from one man who he disagrees within. This should only be viewed as one man’s opinion and a rebuttal to that one man. So is gay the new black? I don’t think so personally.

    Each community experiences injustice and oppression differently. And within each community there are divisions and bigotry. Sexism, classicism and racism exist within the black and queer communities. But to compare the two is ridiculous at the base.

    This is divisive and totally unnecessary. That we are debating the biology of homosexuality shows that we are falling for divisive tactics. Wake up and realize that there are bigger issues!

  • Mark B.

    This seems to attempt to cheapen the discrimination I, personally, have experienced in my life being a gay male (though I am white, discrimination on the most disturbing level has occurred at times). I do not appreciate that aspect of the article. Although, there are some valid points that definitely should be addressed. I just think it should have been in a completely separate article, not comparing the 2 situations. Both are atrocities; one should not be pitted against the other. Minorities of any color, sex, orientation, etc., should BAN TOGETHER AND FIGHT THIS SHIT, instead of saying, like a child, “we are worse off than you”.

  • Greg

    I really enjoyed this article. It brings up an interesting perspective and issue that isn’t talked about enough. Certainly it is important to be sensitive to the struggles of African-Americans throughout American history. Your article makes clear the civil rights movement reached a magnitude and intensity that the LBGT rights movement will most likely never reach. However, if we believe that rights are being taken away from the LBGT community than we have to acknowledge it as equally important to fight for.

  • Eileen Sabatier Matichuk

    It is clear that the Bible condemns homosexuality as an immoral and unnatural sin. Leviticus 18:22 identifies homosexual sex as an abomination, a detestable sin. Romans 1:26-27 declares homosexual desires and actions to be shameful, unnatural, lustful, and indecent. First Corinthians 6:9 states that homosexuals are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God. Since both homosexual desires and actions are condemned in the Bible, it is clear that homosexuals “marrying” is not God’s will, and would be, in fact, sinful.

    Whenever the Bible mentions marriage, it is between a male and a female. The first mention of marriage, Genesis 2:24, describes it as a man leaving his parents and being united to his wife. In passages that contain instructions regarding marriage, such as 1 Corinthians 7:2-16 and Ephesians 5:23-33, the Bible clearly identifies marriage as being between a man and a woman. Biblically speaking, marriage is the lifetime union of a man and a woman, primarily for the purpose of building a family and providing a stable environment for that family.

    The Bible alone, however, does not have to be used to demonstrate this understanding of marriage. The biblical viewpoint of marriage has been the universal understanding of marriage in every human civilization in world history. History argues against gay marriage. Modern secular psychology recognizes that men and women are psychologically and emotionally designed to complement one another. In regard to the family, psychologists contend that a union between a man and woman in which both spouses serve as good gender role models is the best environment in which to raise well-adjusted children. Psychology argues against gay marriage. In nature/physicality, clearly, men and women were designed to “fit” together sexually. With the “natural” purpose of sexual intercourse being procreation, clearly only a sexual relationship between a man and a woman can fulfill this purpose. Nature argues against gay marriage.

  • Christianprincess

    The problem with this article and many arguments made like it is that 4 out of the 5 arguments you made are not true. While I agree that civil rights based on skin color and civil rights based on sexual orientation are two different fights, many of the reasons you listed for their difference aren’t true.

    1. There have been many businesses, governments, and agencies throughout history that have made it known explicitly how they felt about homosexuals being included in their numbers, verbally and in written form. It was not uncommon for many places to have sign that said “No Jews, No Fags and No Niggers need apply”. This separation was made very clear in not only jobs and agencies, but in housing practices, schools, and public facilities such as parks and theaters as well.

    2. There have been many children of lesbian and gay couples who were taken away from their parents for that very reason. Some of these involved adoptions, but some involved the natural children of people suspected to be gay or lesbian. Until the late 1980s and early 1990s homosexual activity was illegal in most states in the United States and could be used as grounds for children to be put into the foster care system or placed in another home. In addition, many parents who tried to fight these laws could be jailed or placed into institutions until they “became straight.”

    4. If you look through the annuls of legal decisions in the United States, homosexuals have been denied rights given to citizens and citizenship due to their sexual orientation or preference. As stated in the above point, being a homosexual or suspected as being one was a crime in this country for most of its history. Most decisions that fell against homosexuals was based on them being labeled as “degenerates”, “perverts”, “against the nature of the creation of God”, and many others. These phrases can actually be found in the court documents being used by judges, attorneys, and jury members.

    5. The very basis that opponents of any rights for gays and lesbians throughout history, particularly American history has been made on the basis of 2 arguments: that their existence is unnatural and goes against the nature of creation; and that their existence violates God’s law according to scripture which condemns homosexuality. People who don’t believe in God try to use these arguments in their opinions of why homosexuals shouldn’t receive certain rights (these arguments didn’t just start with the debate over gay marriage). Violence against homosexuals, rape committed on men, women, and children, the taking away of jobs, housing, and just plain decency and respect have all been “justified” by people with these arguments.

    I see a lot of people who have strong feelings about this subject, especially when it is compared to race, but just as it behooves us to know black history, it may be wise to learn a little about LGBT history as well, especially when you want to make arguments about their lives.

  • Brandon

    We as people have these big heated discussions on differences humans have, but we rarely have a accurate understanding of the groups we’re against. Some of us don’t even understand who we are or the don’t understand the group we think we are apart of or it’s history. We’re often misled or blind to what’s really going on in this world. Every time there is a discussion about homosexuality, it’s brought up that Christians are against gays. We need to understand that Christianity is the following of Jesus Christ. It’s not a set of rules to follow, it’s not a religion, and it’s not a membership. When you come to know Christ, He takes control. It’s not a true Christian’s own will that makes him a child of God. We must understand that gay is a sin, according to the Bible, just as lying, stealing, envy, etc etc, and no sin carries more weight than the other. It’s the acceptance of Christ that saves you from the sin He suffered a cruel death and arose for. He paid for the sin, but the sinner must accept and live for Christ. We must understand that we all must love everyone according to Christ. So, whoever hates any man, regardless of who he is, is not truly following the word of God and hate cannot be a Christian principle. Gay is a sin, but it is not a true Christian who can hate another person. Christians hate sin, but should recognize that only the spirit of God can free us from it. People are born into sin, and will be sinful until they leave Earth, but Jesus is the only answer. To my gay brothers and sisters, please understand that a true Christian does not hate you, but will love every ounce of you. They don’t agree with your sin, but they know a great God knows you by the man or woman he meant for you to be, and EVERYONE has to accept God to receive what He has. If you believe in God, open your heart and accept him. Your heart must cry for him and He WILL come to your aid. It probably won’t be overnight, though it could, but He is the ONLY one who can make you whole. We all need Jesus, not just gay people, so really this is to EVERYONE. God doesn’t care about who hates you or don’t like your lifestyle, He only wants YOU! People will never get it right so don’t be offended when they don’t know how to handle you. God knows you, He’s calling!

  • Sojourner Truth

    I could not agree more that the African American experience is in no way comparable to that of homosexuals. I just read Frederick Douglass’s Narrative a couple of months ago and I was reminded of the deep cruelty that African Americans suffered under slavery. Douglass also points out very cogently how slavery not only ruined the lives of African Americans but also corrupted the souls of slave owners, who might have started out as compassionate Christians, but were eventually corrupted by the role of master into a monster that was hardly recognizable as human. Homosexuals, on the other hand, were mostly ignored. A few did suffer violence, but nothing on the scale of African Americans. Homosexuals are also some of the wealthiest and most powerful people in the United States, and always have been, though they hid their sexuality from the public. I still do not find it necessary to make public a person’s sexuality. What I do in the bedroom is not open for public discussion, and I do resent the constant, in your face publicity promoted by homosexuals, especially when it comes to exposing elementary school children to the homosexual lifestyle. No child should be exposed to sexuality, gay or otherwise, but homosexuals want to indoctrinate children from an early age, and that is both tyrannical and obsessive, and brings confusion to young children who do not yet know anything about sexual practices. The confusion becomes even more evident in the latest California law that separates gender from sex. If a man believes that he is actually a woman, he can now use the woman’s bathroom in California, or vice versa, and if a man who believes he is a woman wants to play on a woman’s athletic team, he can now do that because “gender” now takes priority over the biological sex of a person. The fact that children must be subjected to this new law, makes public schools a very unhealthy environment for children and one that will bring deep confusion about identity. The rejection of Judeo-Christian morality is producing a new kind of slavery, and one that will not be easily destroyed, because people will no longer have a foundation for truth or for moral concerns that benefit everyone.

  • Marc Taylor

    What about homosexual slaves? And Black homosexual men and women alive today? You’re right, it’s not the new black, for people like me (black homo) its a bit darker.

  • Brandon

    When we don’t do as God intended, it won’t stand, and there will be confusion, pain, disaster, failure, and destruction! That applies to EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY. Every problem we have on Earth has a direct link to us disobeying God and doing what WE think feels right, all the way back to Adam and Eve. People have been trying to do things opposite to what God meant forever and it always proves to hurt us. Anyone see the correlation?

  • Afi_Scruggs

    You might want to talk to Matthew Shepard about these points. If you could. He was, after all, lynched.

  • OreoG

    I will never have a problem with the struggles and ordeals being compared; if nothing else, it keeps the memories of what has happened to African-Americans and gays in the forefront of the American consciousness. Obviously the two situations do not parallel each other injustice-for-injustice, and for many reasons {timing, economic/legal status within the country, opinions of the masses, etc} they cannot be equal. However, the article strikes me as a petty dismissal of the gay struggles, as if we as a people are saying “Well, they have it bad, but WE had it worse so why do we care?” It’s not a competition – if anything, I think African-Americans should be reaching out to the LBGTQ community in support, not sinking into fruitless one-upmanship. I don’t support “gay is the new black”, because I feel like that’s a marketing ploy as opposed to a rallying cry, but I feel every other comparison has merit.

    • Daniel McClendon

      Good points Oreo. Thanks for sharing.

  • Brandon

    If you’re a Christian, love EVERYONE as Jesus would. We know the word of God and what it says for homosexuals, but God commanded us to love EVERYONE. It is not the heart of a man that changes people, but the Holy Spirit. I think if the Christian community displayed more love for God’s children, we could win over more souls to Jesus, but we have to let the spirit of God work within us and not our intellect or preaching. We know it’s ONLY the blood of Jesus that allow us to be saved or we would burn in Hell for the sins we couldn’t pay for. Let’s walk with the REAL Jesus who loves so deeply and is calling all souls to accept Him as the savior He is. No one can follow the word of God unless He has been filled with the holy spirit, but we can’t win souls throwing the Bible at people who don’t have the spirit to understand it anyway. We have to invite the ones who don’t know God and the fate of a sinful lifestyle in with love and giving first and let the Holy Spirit in us touch the souls. The bible tells us that a person lost in the ways of the world wouldn’t understand righteousness so why are we so quick to condemn others with the word rather than using as a tool to show the world why we need JESUS! All I have to say is, if you’re gay, I just challenge you to find some REAL Christians who understand your struggles and open yourself up to them as you do to a world that doesn’t really care or have the means to save your soul so that they might lead you to a God that knows what He has for you and have been waiting for your cry. The world, the government, the human rights leaders, the gay rights activists ARE NOT on your side and have their own agenda. Jesus loves YOU and is calling!

  • Kat

    I read this article and I have read a few of these comments and these are my thoughts.
    Everyone likes to feel as if they have been treated wrongly and most of the time it happens. Sometimes by accidents, sometimes by cultural influences or something else. I am working on my masters in mathematics. I am one of 3 women remaining in my group that came in of 15. I have been ridiculed for being a woman in my department (to the point of tears). But if I sat here and let that stop me from being the person I know I can be, well, I let what people say about me become the story of my life. I may never face the trials of slavery or of being beaten for being myself, but I know that whatever anyone says or does to me can’t stop me from being me. And I can complain about it all I would like, but that does nothing but harden my heart. So, please stop and think instead of complaining and comparing, because those are useless in the big picture. Be yourself!

  • fallacy

    I am seeing a significant amount of “A was worse, therefore B is invalid” argumentatin in this thread. Yes, African Americans have had it worse, no ones denying that, but to imfer that becuase it was worse than the maltreatment another group recieves, the other groups experience is so!ehow lesser or invalid is pure fallacy. Many of you, the author included, seem to brush past the line “it’s human rights for everybody, there is no difference” as if the only thing that matters is some perceived black vs gay or gay vs christian agenda. Human rights are human rights regardless of race, creed, sex, or sexual orientation to belittle the plight of another is shallow, puerile, and incredibly misguided.

    • Daniel McClendon

      Good point bro. I once again want to point out that that is exactly why Adam wrote the article. He too felt that to “belittle the plight of another is shallow, puerile, and incredibly misguided.” It was simply that to him Michael Gross’s statement was belittling to the plight of the African-American people, and so he responded out of your very sentiments.

      • fallacy

        “Our oppression,
        by and large, is nowhere near as extreme as blacks’,
        and we insult them when we make facile comparisons
        between our plights. Gay people have more resources
        than blacks had in the 1960s. We are embedded in the
        power structures of every institution of this society. While
        it is illegal in this country to fire an
        African-American without cause and in most places
        it’s still legal to fire a gay person for being gay,
        we are more likely to have informal means of recourse
        than black people have. Almost all gay people have the
        choice of passing. Very few black people have that
        option. Of course, we shouldn’t have to make that
        choice, and our civil rights struggle is about making
        sure that we don’t have to.”

        I fail to see what is so belittling about comparing and contrasting the two civil rights fights or how questioning whether a yard sign that states “Gay is the new black” is true or not either

        • Daniel McClendon

          Look, I hear you man. I read that and didn’t realize Michael Gross had said those things in addition. But it’s his responsibility (as well as it is Adam’s apparently) to think about how his words will be received. And for him to say all of that and still come out and coin a slogan like “gay is the new black” is to impose/imply a comparison that, if taken for face value, can seem belittling.

          Hence Adam’s response. I agree that neither side/struggle should be belittled. But the comparison probably shouldn’t have been made to any degree by Gross.

          • fallacy

            “We gave into another post-election temptation too. Many drew a simple parallel between our struggle and the black civil rights
            movement. Signs at protests said, “I have a
            dream too,” “Welcome to Selma,” and
            “Gay is the new black.””

            Doesn’t seem Like he coined the phrase, merely questioned whether its use was appropriate. (Hint: he doesn’t think so).

            Please, go actually read the article becuase it seems apparent to me that ypou and Adam haven’t.
            Here’s the link:
            http://www.advocate.com/news/2008/11/16/gay-new-black?page=full

          • Daniel McClendon

            I’ll take that egg on my face. He did not coin the phrase. But again, Adam wasn’t trying to belittle anyone’s struggle. Michael did say

            “Gay is the new black in only one meaningful way. Atpresent we are the most socially acceptable targets
            for the kind of casual hatred that American society once
            approved for habitual use against black people.”

            But did he qualify and lend credence to every struggle that African Americans went through? No. But that seems to be what people are demanding Adam do here for the LGBT community

            And in the quote above he says, “we shouldn’t make facile comparisons…” but he does still make comparisons. He’s made comparisons to the point that the cover of the issue of The Advocate says “Gay is the New Black”, not “Gay is the New Black?”

            If the point is to make no comparisons but instead champion the cause for human rights and equality, then he should have just dismissed the comparison all together. That’s all I was trying to say.

          • fallacy

            Why would he need to touch on the struggles that he clearly states he lgbt community doesn’t parallel? The difference would be Adam has clearly stated whay he believes are 5 reasons that the struggles of gays and blacks arent similar, and he can be take to task for that. Mainly becuase he is wholly wromg and his background would show substantial bias. And fyi, Michael Gross’s article was entitled “Gay is the New Black?”, that issue of the magazine may have been entitled “Gay is the New Black” but that is neither his fault, nor substantial grounds to refute anything imn his writings

    • Marcelis L. Muriel

      I’m not trying to sound rude, but there is a difference. Throughout history, any crime inflicted to homosexuals happened because of that person’s actions. For example, you had to DO something to be called gay. Now, let’s compare that to blacks, where crimes were committed against them from BIRTH, only because they had darker skin. It is NOT a matter of which crime committed was worse. It’s a matter of WHY and HOW the crimes were committed. If you are gay, from the ages I would say 0-6 at least, no one knows, including yourself, and therefore crimes cannot be committed against you because you are homosexual. If you are black, from the ages 0-6, everyone knows, and you can therefore be stripped of your humanity because of it. And that’s the other issue. Saying “Gay is the new black” is wrong because it only attempts to connect the two for CIVIL Rights purposes. But before the Civil Rights movement, blacks had to fight to be looked at as HUMANS, which to my knowledge, gays have never had to champion for. And I’m sure there is some idiot who has called an LGBTQ member an inhuman slur before, but I’m saying it has never been systematic, societal practice to believe that Gays were not human. Diseased, confused, crazy, yes–all of these things were used–yes, all of these things are degradative and in need on Civil Rights change, but they are not dehumanizing, and therefore the comparison is as incorrect as to say America is the new England.

      • Lecrazy

        Why are we competing about which one is worse? They’re both awful. To say one if worse than the other is an insult to either.

        • Marcelis L. Muriel

          lol I specifically said, “It is NOT a matter of which crime committed was worse”. So I’m sure you completely missed the point of my comment.

  • jakeslaw

    Then there is the major difference. Being versus action. The African-American is born a member of a specific race. That is a part of his being. as a human being he should be treated with a dignity and a respect that all human beings deserve – until they forfeit it by their actions – then suffer the consequences of wrong behavior. The person who calls himself “gay” or acts out a homosexual lifestyle is “acting” or doing something that for all of human history (except perhaps until recently), society has held as aberrant behavior. It is an insult to the African American who has suffered discrimination to be compared with people who act outside the norm. Now given that understanding it does not mean that one should attack or hurt anyone simply because they have chosen to live in a way inconsistent with accepted moral values. Indeed one should pray for such persons. But it is also a fallacy in logic to consider that their “claim” for rights is a continuation of the civil rights movement. Indeed the true successor to the civil rights movement is the right to life or anti-abortion movement – an effort to protect all human life, especially the life in the womb.
    So I appreciate Pastor Thompson’s reflections. We are called to love our neighbor but that does not mean we are required to accept behavior that is unhealthy or in violation of biblical teaching. And despite what the media may say, disapproving of such behavior does not make on a bigot. Understanding that marriage is between a man and a woman does not make one a bigot. Calling for people to be responsible in living their lives according to the Ten Commandments does not make one a bigot. Asking people to respect Christianity and what it teaches does not make one a bigot. Pointing out that government and the courts have been attacking Christians for holding to their beliefs does not make on a bigot. but i am sure that this post will be attacked by people who will call me names because there is no logic to their position.

    • fallacy

      Apparently ancient Greece is considered “very recent”.

    • fallacy

      And please share with the class what fallacy they would be committing?

  • Catherine

    Agreed. The way that the LBGT has stolen the civil rights movement and claimed it as theirs is offensive. There is no comparison between slavery and homosexuality. The movement has been hijacked and falsely compared.

    • fallacy

      It’s not called the “Black Rights Movement” for a reason.

    • Khari Jones

      (-___-) I am going to echo the commenter before me: It’s not called the “Black Rights Movement” for a reason.

  • http://brianstroup.com/ Brian Stroup
  • April Mason

    I LOVE IT!!!! Thank you so much for this.

  • disqus_EWGmUQjqTx

    Obviously saying “gay is the new black” is offensive. But I have issue with the argument that comparing gay and black is in itself problematic–after all, comparing two things presupposes that differences exist (in this case many, many fundamental historical and social differences). I think it would be more accurate to say that *equating* the two is offensive.

  • MIISS 25

    I agree with a lot of these. But in the south the gays have been tied up and beaten or dragged behind a car…or Killed

  • Khari Jones

    Sorry, this is shit.

  • Khari Jones

    This is shit. Quite obviously/literally, NOTHING is advanced by asserting this. I agree that the two struggles differ qualitatively in many areas, but they are similar in many ways as well. This article, too, fails to address the experience of “Gay” AND “Black” in the US (and abroad). It isn’t a coincidence that some of the Gay-Black commenters are offended by this. This is another one of the Black community’s ways to make the gay existence and experience “lesser than.” It’s irritating and it’s an allergy. The point of this article may have been to separate the two experiences, but it clearly elevates racial suffering while devaluing and excusing away sexuality-driven discrimination. People need to understand ALL of the identities they possess and the social implications of having these identities. As much as I face discrimination with two of my identities, I am aware that I benefit from MALE privilege (for example). I need Black HETEROSEXUALS to understand that that second identity has a HOST of privileges that comes with it. Was it EVER asserting that Gays and Blacks (and, subsequently, their experiences) are/were identical??? Never.

  • John Doe

    I understand the anger this comes from because racism in America still isn’t fully recognized. Often it seems commentators will subtle suggest that racism isn’t a major problem in America. The unsaid position of the Republican party is that the institutional racism and public policy targeting African Americans for over 300 years isn’t whats holding back racial equity, it’s simply that black people are too lazy to get a job (not my position however). Having said this I honestly don’t really see the purpose in the argumentation in this post and I feel like I’ve seen this a lot in a number of different places. I could point out that being gay in many countries today is illegal and in some it is punishable by death. Until the Lawrence v Texas decision in 2004 gay sex was actually illegal in a number of states, and those laws are still on the books in states like Texas. This is to say nothing of the oppression of gay people in the past, imagine trying to be in a gay relationship with a family in 1950 or 1900, the result would likely be violence, no job, your family and children taken from you. It may be difficult to understand for people of our generation but laws banning gay sex and gay adoption used to be the norm only 15 years ago. Here’s the underlying point. None of this matters. If you care about oppression than you should work to end oppression and used whatever rhetorical tools are at your disposal. Making distinctions between different minority groups is kind of pointless. I actually think you missed the real distinction between gay people and African Americans, which is that perpetual economic disenfranchisement through both public policy and private actions for 300 years made it impossible for African Americans to save money and wealth, such that black children born today start out immediately from a disadvantage. Being gay doesn’t link you to a particular economic station it just insures that you will receive bigotry. As I said this doesn’t actually matter because coalition politics mean that advancement on issues of oppression entail large coalition groups, therefore in order for gays or black people to make progress they need to work together. Which is all together a pretty simple point.

  • Amira Carney

    I have never experience any of those things either and I’m black. I’m extremely grateful for the sacrifice many people made to help make my life what it is today. But gay is not the new black for these reasons. Gay isn’t the new black because like someone said earlier you can hide being gay (not that someone should have to), you can’t change your skin color, or continuously watch your hair fall your from getting relaxers to destroy any kink or curl. If you’re gay and walk into a store no one is going to be following you around and peek around corners to see if you’re going to take something, if you’re gay you don’t have to walk into a job interview and know that you have to be 10 times better to get half as much. And I don’t know exactly but I’m pretty sure homosexuals don’t deal with the extreme amount of self hate as black people do. And when I say that o don’t mean they are not ashamed because a are and wish they could change. What I mean is you don’t hear gay ppl saying “you’re not gay enough”. Where black people often use hateful language to describe characteristics of a someone who looks just like themselves or even using words that shouldn’t be taken as a bad thing to bring each other down like having nappy hair , or being “black as hell” (I get that one a lot) . That comes from years of conditioning through media that haven’t been dealt with and never will be because of articles like this where people continuously reference the past to make a point therefore people believe that the struggles for black people today are gone.

  • Jester

    Oh this is a bit silly. And I can’t imagine why someone as educated as yourself would make such insensitive, divisive statements, except that perhaps you’re stuck in that southern black christian mindset, which sees gays as inherently evil (and weak.) Blacks see being gay as a weakness, and any commonality between the two groups causes a fair measure of philosophical distress.

    I’m black, bisexual, and was raised in the christian south. Oh, and uh, btw, I too have a masters degree. And frankly your reasoning here sucks (perhaps more properly stated ‘sux’, with a capital SUX.)

    1) Gays have never experienced a society that oppresses them fully and completely? You been Iran lately? Or Afghanistan? Or any country in Africa? Btw, remind me which country it is where you can hang someone or give them life in prison simply for being black? Not for being an “uppity slave”; just for being black.

    Also when’s the last time you heard of camps established to bleach blacks skin and convert them into whites? Have blacks ever had to hide their blackness from family and friends, “come out” years later, and then be flogged and given life in prison? Imagine a world where being black is considered a mental illness! These last quips are a bit unfair. Which brings me to….

    2) You’re comparing apples to oranges. And I think you knew that; you just couldn’t come up with a five reasons. And five’s a nice round number, I give you that.

    And no, strangers don’t snatch gay children away from their families for purposes of “division and dehumanization.” Their own parents do this. I recently lost contact with a friend who is now homeless, because both his parents in GA are staunch christians. Parents are still shipping their kids off to camps to “fix them”; places that, until recently, dehumanized them through the use of techniques like shock therapy, and aversion therapy. Many parents simply kick their children to the curb.

    Also society is not able to discard gays from birth because the technology to consistently identify them so early doesn’t exist.

    Yet.

    3) True! gays have never been viewed or sold as property. Up until recent decades a lot of people didn’t even believe homosexuality, as a distinct sexual orientation, existed. They thought it was a “phase” or “confusion.” Imagine being told you don’t exist! You just THINK you’re black!

    If you’re trying to say blacks have suffered in more brutal ways than gays, then you miss the point. Both have suffered tremendously due to ignorance and bigotry.

    4) I think you don’t appreciate what it means to be gay in a country with strong religious conservatism. It means living in fear, not from extremists, but from your own community – your own family.

    Your point here is to say that society has historically shown encompassing oppression of blacks. But blacks don’t have to hide the fact they’re black – we’re not able to. Coming out as gay can completely ruin your life, even today. Lose your job, family kicks you out, businesses can refuse to serve you (like a “straights only” water fountain), friends leave you, schools can expel you and revoke scholarships, etc. It’s all legal in the US.

    And it gets worse in other parts of the world. I feel relatively comfortable walking in public abroad as a black man. I’d think twice about holding a boyfriend’s hand in the streets of Jamaica (where a queer individual was chopped and stabbed to death.) Btw enslavement of blacks lasted 400+ years. LGBT individuals have been beaten and getting stoned to death since the Old Testament. Also you won’t find a passage in the bible that says to kill blacks who sleep with other blacks.

    I say this not to diminish my own people’s struggle. This is to put things in perspective for you, as you don’t seem to fully comprehend gay experience. It’s only recently “gay rights” was even a thing. How’s that for representation in one’s government?

    5) No, gays weren’t beaten or killed because they were viewed as property. But have you read Leviticus lately? You’re (again) comparing apples to oranges, but whatever. Religion has always been used as justification for beating, killing, and even raping gays and lesbians. This was unquestioned in the US for a long time, and it’s still the norm in many parts of the world. You should know better than to put forth this argument.

    In closing your arguments are pretty poorly thought out, to the point of being offensive. I’ve had this SAME argument with my jewish roommate, who at first didn’t believe blacks had it “as bad as jews.” It’s not about who “struggled more.” However acknowledge horrible things happened to both groups, in different ways. And we’re all still struggling to this day – gays, blacks, jews, whatever. Your argument is a false distinction.

    It’s not that you’re, you know, dumb or anything (I would never insinuate that…) Your perspective is skewed. I recommend attending a support group for people who struggle with gay issues, just to hear their stories. Try chatting online with lesbian women in Iran. Learn something.

    Btw I reserve the right to disparage christianity. Because I was a self-hating, hard praying, pious little christian boy for years and years, until I figured out how awesome sucking d___ was. (Ok that was maybe a bit immature, lol.)

  • Ruby

    Almost everyone that has commented is missing the entire point of the article…a lot of these comments are based on emotion and are diverging from the original intent of the article, stay on topic people! if you reread the article, the author is stating a few specific reasons why being gay and being black isn’t comparable. He is not diminishing what the Lgbt community is experiencing, but he is negating the statement of “gay being the new black” you can’t compare race with sexual orientation…PERIOD!

    To be honest, I feel that the phrase diminishes what an entire race of people suffered through for centuries.

    • aurrevoirshoshanna

      You said he’s stating specific reasons why being gay and being black isn’t comparable. Yet to come up with these differences, you first have to attempt to compare the two not so? You then go on to say that you can’t compare the two. This is very confusing.

      • Ruby

        To be honest, you’re reading far too deeply into what he said and what I said. Obviously you have to “compare” them in order to note the differences. What I am saying is that the two are NOT comparable in the context in which the phrase compares them “gay is the new black” Race and sexual orientation are two completely different entities.

  • Biebur Justine

    Who dances better… Gay people or black people?

  • Andre Trujillo

    1. the
    recent references of tantamount exploitation of the homosexual community and
    it’s parallels to the historical journey
    of African-Americans in no way, shape or form is being intended (nor
    interpenetrated by the intellectual majority) to infer any comparison outside
    of the societal burdens of being born inconveniently on the
    “controversial” side of a heated
    CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. Factually, historically and LITERALLY happening
    right now for members of the gay community- and the analytical awareness
    drummed up strolling down memory lane visiting the plight of the last societal
    minority to be targeted only attempts to remind this wonderful republic that
    the hard-to-get routine is both outdated and unnecessary (not to mention tired
    as fuck).

    2.
    Hardly fair to discredit an apple based on oranges. By this, I mean that
    slavery doesn’t trump inequality because this is not a competition of martyrdom
    where one heritage is attempting to one-up one historical atrocity to another.
    To say that the internment camps during WW2 was as racially discriminatory as
    concentration camps would not be nullified as a valid statement simply because
    Jews were once slaves in Egypt.

    3.
    Gay’s not targeted for beating, “yada yada yada…” MATHEW SHEPARD
    ring any bells? How about that shiny OSCAR earned by Hilary Swank in her
    portrayal of the true crime victim raped and murdered in BOYS DON’T CRY?
    According to the FBI, in 2012 alone 1,376 violent hate crime victims nationally
    were targeted based on sexual orientation alone.

    4. To
    say homosexuals will never feel like sub-citizens with stripped rights is quite
    a ballsy statement for someone to make without being on the side of “the
    lesser”; ignorance is not only bliss but concurrently an
    understatement…you see I was born in America. In the same country as my
    mother. Same country as my grandparents. Some country as my siblings. My
    brother. My sister. Both of whom have two marriages under their belts. Same
    nationality, with the same memories of the same family and the same classes on
    American History- and yet they have two marriages under their belts. However, I
    do not….because I am not given the same guaranteed to obtain (in actuality)
    the happiness of which I’m in pursuit; I can’t get married once. They can. They
    can get divorced twice- in fact they have….and yet I CANNOT MARRY. You know,
    because I threaten the sanctity and all…

    5.
    “Homosexual men/women will never see a society that makes it a point–IN
    EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE–to remind them that they’re lesser in creation and not
    deserving of life’s joys.” You realize the whole platform for the
    nationalization of this back-asswards debacle is that GOD intended MAN and
    WOMAN to cohabitate and that homosexuality is a moral abomination; so much in
    fact that millions who aren’t gay, don’t want to marry gays and choose not to
    recognize those in the lifestyle are
    expending energy (and imaginative propaganda i.e. THIS ARTICLE) on civic
    matters that do not pertain to them. It’d be the equivalent to me getting wound
    up over the matrimonial allowances between PANTENE PRO-V users and their SUAVE
    preferring counterparts. I’m bald- so elope and binge treat your follicles in
    Garnier for a month. I don’t give a rat’s @5$ (AND YES, that’s an analogy that
    accurately sums up my view of the incredibly asinine opposers- aka the unaffected
    bigots- of my civil rights.)

    6.
    SCHOOLHOUSE ROCK- THE PREMBLE.

  • Otha Tindley

    I agree that Homosexuality was never in the forefront of any African American Civil Right Movement of any sort. However, is it safe to suggest that maybe the reason African-Americans were never discriminated against for their sexuality in a Civil Rights aspect was because the concern was solely focused on the color of one’s skin? We should take things as they are and not how we want to perceive them. The Civil-Rights movement was in no wise a sexuality issue. Moreover, in TODAY’s society homosexual men/women face many OTHER discriminations

  • Theothemule

    yikes…what would Bell Hooks, say about this reading of Black vs LGBTQ oppression?…I would urge us to think about intersectionality in relation to how certain groups of people are oppressed and that the two are not mutually exclusive. I feel you on the push back against LGBTQ b/c in a lot of ways it is read as a white-only concern, but there are millions of queer of color folk in this country that might This then would account for gay and queer enslaved Africans that were undoubtedly a part of the middle passage and enslavement. The article assumes a black heteronormativity vs a white queerness that is problematic, further…the oppression olympics argument doesn’t serve productive and progressive aims to dismantle systems of inequality…and yes, non-hetero folk have a long and sordid history of being tortured, institutionalized and brutalized…I wouldn’t come at Mr. Thomason if he wasn’t getting a doctorate in Education, he should revisit some literature on queer of color experience, like Jacqui Alexander …he’s right to be frustrated about the framing of these issues, but he’s misplacing his response

  • chris gatrost

    really why are we arguing about all this im white an straight so maybe i dont understand im from kentucky so maybe you stereotype as dumb but really this argument is over who has the the bigger horse oh this happened to me an this happened to me who cares. who cares what other people think your living right? then your fine an need to stop ive seen an met successful gay man an successful black men same for women your color or sexuality shouldnt stop you from succeeding in life God gives his biggest battles to his strongest soldiers yes i feel bad that people have beat black people an gay people but ya know what black people made a change by doing something non violent about they didnt sit around on there butts going oh think things are going to change an yes it took time so if it doesnt happen in a week i dont feel bad for you so this argument is officially irrelevant

  • Brian Davis

    I think the defense statements of LBGT community are funny in itself. They wants rights in society, even the military. I laugh because its really funny. My 1st sergeant came out and said if you want rights just stay straight and there is no issue. Fighting for something thats pointless for preference when everything was founded on God, equal of all men to the extent at that time wasnt equality for african american through that time in history if you have read it or watch the movies from PBS about the “African Americans: Many rivers to cross” http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cross/ . There the link for you to watch some history facts. You have choices in this world but that don’t make it right. Your common sense knows the difference unless your mentally challenge. No one have to tell that the same sex can produce a child. If you want a child you have to be with the opposite sex unless you use science which still requires X to impregnate Y to make Z. To me in my opinion it just sounds like lost children who wants to get what what they cant have when you already have rights but its not the rights you want. People always want to say the bible has contradictions and everything else. That might be true to some extent but the bible is history in itself. If you read it for what its worth it tells you that homosexuality is wrong even from a Christian stand point, Jeweish, or even Hebrew stand point. I dont think people know there own history is the reason you want to take snippets of the bible and make it seem like its one-sided. Read the entire chapter to understand what it means. IF you dont know get another bible that have better translation. Wrong is wrong. Sin is sin no matter how you look at. If you lie its a sin. Your right people shouldn’t harm those that are LGBT. Throughout history what did Africans had to endure throughout history here in America all the way to Africa is ridiculous. Religion is a powerful thing that is part of the spiritual. In my opinion everything else came from that spiritual knowledge including science. The only difference with science is that it just proves the unknown to that extent of a person knowledge whether if they use tools or not. When science can’t come up with proof they just make assumptions or theories inside the box of what they been taught. DNA dont lie about a person color or blood type or ancestry but it will never be able to comprehend man’s creation or purpose on earth, or even power if you believe in that sort of thing. Even though alot of society think we are different but we are all one and the same “human” All races think there different but that’s only because G-d made us that way when we was all one and seperated us from reaching him and having differenet languages. Sad to say science proves this fact that all races have some type of trace of african descent from them but ppl don’t want to hear that because of the stigma of blacks today. The comparison to be equal is more like a slap in the face our forefathers history. I appreciate this guy’s article. Your not born gay. Misguided maybe more or less. A baby doesnt know what to do as an infant a child has to be taught when they are a certain age. The only thing your using is your five senses. Now when you grow up to make your own decision that is considered preference or a choice one makes. What you been taught and doing the exact opposite is what you may feel. We all have a choice but you would have to awnser for it when you leave this place. Sad thing is its written instructions on how to succeed,love, do right, and live right. B.asic I.nstructions B.efore L.eaving E.arth. You use it as a guide to make right decisions and not wrong decsions. If you read it for whats its worth it will give you an awnser. There is no other book that can give you awnsers and especially history in the bible. Oldest book of knowledge. If you want extensive knowledge then read others passages like the Torah, Judaism, buddism, and other religions and make comparisions throughout their history. They all say the same thing. Love, peace and be one with G-d. Every religion from the past have their own interpretation of G-d’s instructions. Every story told is similar but told differently for the people can understand. For example the prodigal son told one way in the bible but told the same way but in different version in buddhism. They both have the same meaning. Something has to be right about the old tales from back then. Marriage between a man and woman is sacred All these differents religions never speaks upon the same sex being married becuz they all knew its wrong. After years past things are not strict like they use to be , maybe in other countries my friend tells me about since I have a huge network of friends in different countries and they think is wrong as well because they all been taught the same thing that LGBT is wrong. It will forever be wrong becuz there is no right in it. Can you procreate in it? I think not unless you required assistance. To be equal you are still requiring assistance from an LGBT standpoint but G-D already made you equal but making you a man or a woman to be whole together and not adam and adam or eve with eve. If that was the cause there would be no distinction in gender or procreation. We would have powers to make babies without procreation. G-d made it for two ppl to procreate and it will always stay that way.

  • Dara Kheal

    I agree that the struggles of the LGBT community are definitely not the same as they were for African Americans back during the civial rights movement, but you make it sound like it’s incomparable. The troubles may not have happened to the masses, but there are plenty who know real pain, and seen inhumanity. Yes, we may not know what it’s like to be torn away from our mothers as babies, instead some of us have been thrown away by them when we see them disgusted and will never forget that. Mocked and bullied and pushed into a corner, so stripped of our dignity that we end it ourselves. Some places in the world we’re seen as so worthless that slavery isn’t even an option, only death would be befitting. Look at Uganda… People who in the past would have been slaves think so little of the LGBT community that they’ll just kill us. People who even know of a homosexual person and say nothing of it die too. So if we’re talking about just the crimes against in general and not concentrating on where they’re being committed… Just the soul fact that they happen: both black and LGBT people and their supporters have been subject to a lot of hate, social segregation, and beaten and murdered for being who we are.

  • Emmanuel Jean-Philippe

    I concur wholeheartedly.

  • chris

    So is the point of this article that since the LGBT movement hasn’t endured a horrendous history of torment like that experienced by African Americans, the discrimination and hatred expressed towards them is somehow less relevant? Do they need to go through something like that for you to accept them? The point Macklemore is making is that LGBT issues are human rights issues. All individuals should be treated the same under the law regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation. Hate is hate regardless of the way it is expressed.

    These are my cursory responses to your arguments:

    1. May not have separate water fountains but are denied the right to marry the one they love in most states.

    2. Not sure this argument makes sense – how would you rid the world of gay babies? At birth the sexual identity of a child is null.

    3. So is the injustice an individual experiences correlated to physical suffering? OR is all discrimination evil and expressed in differing degrees?

    4. Among the “unalienable rights” implicitly protected in the Bill of Rights are freedom of conscience—how can one have freedom of speech or religion without freedom of conscience? http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/23/What-Did-Thomas-Jefferson-Mean-By-Unalienable-Rights When you deny them this basic right you are withholding full and equal citizenship.

    5. This is simply not true. Matthew Shephard – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard For years, societal norms have allowed for discrimination of homosexual individuals. They weren’t beaten because they were viewed as property. They were beaten because they were gay.

    The point I am trying to make is that all discrimination should be condemned. That comparing the struggles of two groups that experience intense discrimination and claiming one was worse than the other is not helpful.

  • aurrevoirshoshanna

    Let me first start off by saying that this article is stupid and the fact that Adam Thomason took the time to even attempt to draw comparisons between two groups that have been oppressed in different ways is disturbing on so many levels. Not only that, but although he clearly shows a decent understanding of African-American history he clearly knows all but nothing about Queer-American history. Making his comparison biased, inaccurate and just plain insulting.

    Seriously, what’s the point? Do we get a medal for figuring out who’s the most oppressed? Should the Jews and the African-Americans hold a global forum as to whether the holocaust or slavery was worse. NO. It makes no sense. Neither should have happened, and that’s that. Comparing them is utterly useless because almost every circumstance surrounding the two events is completely different. Just like the black struggle and the queer struggle are completely different. So why bother even going there? Especially when you’re only familiar with the folks on one side of the fence, and not the ones on the other Mr. Thomason.

    Really, the only people qualified to write this article with any ounce of credibility are black gay people. Black gay people face both the black struggle and the gay struggle, so anyone who isn’t black and gay can take a seat – you may think your opinion is relevant but I assure you it’s not. It’s just like when you try to explain to white people about the black struggle and they chime in as if they understand – NO – they can sympathize, but they can’t empathize because it’s not their life, and it’s not their place to do so. Just like it isn’t Adam Thomason’s place to make sweeping claims about which is worse.

    So, as a black gay male in America, someone qualified to address this – here it goes:

    The 2 struggles are almost entirely different and therefor incomparable… but I think it’s VERY OBVIOUS it’s much worse to be gay nowadays than it is to be black. Before 1863 (maybe even 1965) I’d probably say it was much worse to be black in America, because you clearly could not hide your skin (imagine being a black-gay slave though) and you could maybe do a decent job of hiding your sexuality. Or, if you were a white gay, it really didn’t matter because the whites were busy hating the black anyways. Nowadays though everyone hates gays; even African-Americans, ironically, who I’ve found (especially AA males) to be some of he most homophobic people in America (some, not all).

    So to go down Thomason’s List:

    1. False. Homosexual men are constantly berated, from early childhood, based on gender perceptions – which most cultures in the modern world adhere to. Homosexuality is often seen as emasculating and we’re constantly reminded of this in EVERY ASPECT of society. While it isn’t as obvious as a sign saying ‘gays only – straight only’ I am constantly reminded every day I’m gay – usually in a negative way. From the time we’re babies boys are expected to have blue rooms and girls have pink rooms. Boys play with cars and girls play with barbies. When the little gay boy plays with a barbie he gets made fun of – maybe a spanking, because it’s ‘not right’. He gets bullied in school for being a little feminine when he’s older. He goes to church and the pastor says being gay is wrong. He watches television where 98% of the programming is straight related. All the love stories show boys and girls. The axe commercial shows how men can attract women, not men attracting men. A gay couple holds hands in a public place and most people think ‘do that at home’. Meanwhile the black, white, yellow and purple straight people around them get to hold hands with no comment. The transgender kid gets expelled from school for going into the female bathroom because they’re biologically male but mentally female. Most religions are interpreted as being against homosexuality. Most states don’t recognize gay marriages or any sort of same-sex contract for that matter. We see places like Russia and Uganda where gays are being tortured and killed. Music is constantly dissing the gays. So please explain to me then how society is not reminding us, in every aspect, that we’re lesser in creation and deserving of life’s joys?

    2. True, the homosexual version is fundamentally different. It does not happen at birth because you can’t tell a baby’s gay, usually. But suppose the baby grows up in a ‘loving’ Christian family. He loves his mother a lot, and his father and all his siblings. He starts to realize he’s different when he’s younger. Then he comes out at age 15. His father decides to kick him out because he doesn’t want a ‘sissy’ son. This is the man who raised him. His 2 brothers he grew up with and shared so many childhood memories suddenly can’t look at him. In the space of a single conversation they are suddenly weirded out and repulsed by him. His mother, the person he loves the most in the world who he thought so much of and idolized is silent. She says nothing, she does not defend him because she doesn’t want to go against her husband and although she loves him she has only ever known that being gay is a ‘sin’. He is left abandoned and alone by the people he thought he could always count on. He must now go live in a homeless youth shelter if one is even available. The streets are an alternate. On top of that, people at school now know and all of his ‘friends’ won’t speak to him anymore. He gets teased and bullied constantly. He can’t go to church either because the people there think he’s a sinner and he’s going to hell. He eventually thinks even God has turned his back on. It’s a ‘divide and conquer’ that happens AFTER you’ve created bonds with people, not before. This is why people are afraid of coming out, because they’re afraid of people turning their backs on them – so tell me how that isn’t dehumanizing?

    3.True. Homosexuals aren’t an ethnic group and we don’t share a common ancestry in the typical sense. But, there is a disproportionately high amount of the transgender population that turn to sex-work because they are being discriminated against in more traditional work environments. That’s a type of human capital, although obviously not on the scale of slavery. So yes, we’re not considered ‘human capital’ per se but we are considered something else – biological anomalies. A lot of people think gays are nature’s ‘mistakes’. Gay people constantly say we’re born gay, but society expects us to somehow prove it. Why does no one take our word for it? If a cancer patient tells you they were born with cancer no one questions them. If an albino person tells you they were born albino no one questions them. It’s widely understood in the scientific world that homosexuality is quite natural in nature. Dolphins and several other species exhibit a high degree of homosexuality. Maybe the dolphin ‘chose’ to be gay right? It is also understood that attraction is due heavily to chemical processes in our body – most of which we cannot consciously regulate. But if a gay person tells you they’re born gay all of a sudden it’s up for debate. All of a sudden we CAN DECIDE who we’re attracted to. Straight people take it upon themselves to decide for US that it’s a choice – and the wrong one at that in their eyes. We’re constantly reminded that a man and a man can’t procreate and it’s unnatural. It was even considered to be a mental illness by some and people have attempted to ‘cure’ it through exorcisms, beatings and even eletro-shock therapy. So while there was no 3/5th’s compromise for gays a surprisingly large portion of society basically thinks we’re mistakes and don’t see us as humans. That is what defines our culture.

    4. True and False. We ARE considered citizens and that has never been disputed. Yet we DON’T actually have all the rights that our fellow citizens do. So should we actually FEEL like citizens even though we don’t have equal rights? Hmm, sounds familiar right?

    5. True and False. The common interpretation is that scripture thinks homosexuality is wrong. I mean read all the comments below, that’s pretty obvious. We’re not seen as cattle or property but a lot of gays have been killed because the bible says ‘Thou shalt not lie with a man as he does with a woman.’ Both in America and outside of it.

    In closing, as a black gay man I am deeply saddened and ashamed that I was even forced to debunk or draw a comparison to every one of these points. They are two different struggles from two different eras. What’s really sad to me is that a black person, someone you would think would at least be able to sympathize with being an oppressed minority, instead tried to cast stones saying that our struggle is less valid. NO as someone who is a victim of both black-oppression and queer-oppression I will tell you that both of my struggles are equally valid to me and it’s not your business to say otherwise. Just like white people shouldn’t be telling anyone to get over slavery and men shouldn’t be telling women what to do with their vagina. Y’all make me sick.

    • David Noah Parker

      Heart warming!!! that’s what that was. I am not black and so I would never presume to speak to what being black is like or how the persecution for being gay is similar or dissimilar to the struggles of African Americans past or present. All I know is that the argument made in this article and a lot of the responses to it are designed to do one thing. and that is to (in the christian mind) reduce the severity of the plight of the LGBT community. If African Americans had it worse, than I have no right to complain about or feel sorry for being abandoned by my family, spit on in my place or work, fired from my job when the boss found out i was gay, beat till I bled for looking at someone to long, forced to chose between my church and reparative Therapy. suffering at the hands of my church brothers and sisters for three years while they tried to cure me of my sin, having everyone I cared about dismiss my pain because it was the result of a choice, living in fear that someone might see something that gives it away because that changes the way people treat you. when they thought I liked girls they treated my like a regular normal person now its all gone. hide that i know how to cook, and sew, that I have the best singing voice, that I like birds instead of cars. not because those things are bad but because they are less masculine. anyway thanks for your response and story.

  • frogcrunch

    I don’t understand the whole premise of the article. There might be some ignorant and insensitive people who think there can be a clear parallel between the two, but the majority of queer allies and social justice advocates are well aware that drawing direct parallels is disrespectful. Please do not use the ignorance of a few to try to invalidate the struggles of lgbtqia+ people, please do your research better (regarding point 5., maybe you would like to explain the torrent of unpunished bullying against people with non-cishet orientations and identities, or maybe explain why murder is the leading cause of death for trans* people, surely it can’t be because they are othered by society at large, rendering them “fair game” for violence?) Also, intersectionality, look it up. Sensitivity to these issues is becoming a major, major element of all liberation movements.

  • Anon

    People are using this as an excuse to jump on the bandwagon, it’s almost insanity to compare the two. I watched a video of a young black male (gay) rapping it took me a minute to focus to see he was wearing make up had false nails, my heart hurt he was such an attractive young man almost speaking as if he was female in his lyrics I couldn’t bare to watch the rest, I wondered what could of been the catalyst that started this? I often wonder how this happens to oour young men and women, I then was brought back to my own childhood memories of being abused by my mother (sexually) I’ve never really spoken about it but it all made sense when I was trying to figure out how this young man could have become like that, I was exposed to things a child should never have been exposed to, my mother’s sexual lifestyle with men & women it was the norm for me throughout school I would have little flings with girls in junior school and high school I didn’t know I was bi-sexual because this was normal for me but I still kept it secret even as I became older the Spirit that had entered me due to the behaviour of my mother had a negative impact on my whole life although I favoured men over women that still didn’t change the fact of what started all this, there’s a reason why this young man’s life is the way it is now I just pray someone can reach out and share the Gospel with him.

  • Joseph Edward Nether

    okay i have got some hard questions for every homosexual and homosexual enabler up on here:i will present some major facts,and all i want after that is this:a honest answer from at least one of you.cause im sick of your lies okay,you proclaim you want equal rights,well we know that from the very beginning that has always been a lie:you want total control of every area of society,equal rights is the last thing on your mind:and heres proof:the whole lifestyle(yes thats all it is)of homosexuality is based on narcissism ,lust,and iniquity :why even the man who started it all :

    Gaëtan Dugas

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Gaëtan Dugas

    Born
    April 20, 1953

    Died
    March 30, 1984 (aged 31)

    Quebec City, Quebec

    Nationality
    Canadian

    Other names
    “Patient Zero”

    Occupation
    Flight attendant

    Known for
    patient zero for AIDS

    Gaëtan Dugas (French: [ɡaetɑ̃ dyˈɡa]; April 20, 1953 – March 30, 1984) was a Canadian who worked for Air Canada as a flight attendant.[1] Dugas became notorious as the alleged patient zero for AIDS.

    A study published in the American Journal of Medicine in 1984 traced many of New York City’s early HIV infections to an unnamed infected homosexual male flight attendant. Epidemiologists hypothesized that Dugas had carried the virus out of Africa and introduced it into the Western gay community.[2]

    Dugas is featured prominently in Randy Shilts’s book And the Band Played On, which documents the outbreak of AIDS in the United States.
    Shilts portrays Gaëtan Dugas as having almost sociopathic behavior by
    allegedly intentionally infecting, or at least recklessly endangering,
    others with the virus. Dugas is described as being a charming, handsome
    sexual athlete who, according to his own estimation, averaged hundreds
    of sex partners a year. He claimed to have had over 2,500 sexual
    partners across North America since becoming sexually active in 1972.[3]
    In addition, Dugas was legally married in Los Angeles on June 27, 1977,
    in an illegal attempt to receive United States citizenship.

    Dugas died in Quebec City on March 30, 1984, as a result of kidney failure caused by continual AIDS-related infections.[4]
    The “Patient Zero” term arose in March 1984 after a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
    (CDC) study. The CDC began tracking the sexual liaisons and practices
    of homosexual men in California, New York, and some other states. As
    Dugas was found to be the center of a network of sexual partners, he was
    dubbed “patient 0

    1.harry hay,the father of the homosexual movement and father of NAMBLA :national assoc of man boy love) that it is homosexuals full right to have axess to children and do whatever yall want with them without interference
    2,harvey milk,another one of your hero’s and pioneers who would regularly take in run aways as young as 15 and turn them out,saw nothing wrong with it,and practiced it till he died
    3 obamas safe school czar when he was senator and as president kevin jennings of glisten who as a teacher taught 16 yr old student that older men fisting him was okay.and was also a nambla sympothizer ,who also wants every Christian school in america shut down.4. MESSA GESSEN homosexual activist exposed the hidden agenda behind homosexual
    “marriage” when she told an audience last year that the movement is not
    seeking equality but rather a total dismantling of the institution of
    marriage itself.

    Masha Gessen, a journalist and author who campaigns for homosexual
    ‘rights’, made the comments last May in Australia on a panel at the
    Sydney Writer’s Festival. She said:
    It’s a no-brainer that (homosexual activists) should have the right to
    marry, but I also think equally that it’s a no-brainer that the
    institution of marriage should not exist. …(F)ighting for gay marriage
    generally involves lying about what we are going to do with marriage
    when we get there — because we lie that the institution of marriage is
    not going to change, and that is a lie.
    The institution of marriage is going to change, and it should change.
    And again, I don’t think it should exist. And I don’t like taking part
    in creating fictions about my life. That’s sort of not what I had in
    mind when I came out thirty years ago.

    Providing her own life as an example for her advocacy to do away with
    marriage, Gessen described the complex family structure in which three
    children whom she parents live: one of them is adopted with her
    ex-partner, another – whom she birthed – has a biological father in
    Russia, and the third is the biological child of her current partner and
    Gessen’s brother. These three children have five adults in parenting
    roles, but not all five adults parent all three children.

    “The five parents break down into two groups of three,” she said. “And
    really, I would like to live in a legal system that is capable of
    reflecting that reality, and I don’t think that’s compatible with the
    institution of marriage.”

    5.Pedophiles
    to seek same rights as gays using same tactics as homosexual lobby,
    report says – See more at:
    http://misguidedchildren.com/domestic-affairs/2013/07/pedophiles-to-seek-same-rights-as-gays-using-same-tactics-as-homosexual-lobby-report-says/2041#sthash.9DmiiGLu.dpuf

    Pedophiles
    to seek same rights as gays using same tactics as homosexual lobby,
    report says – See more at:
    http://misguidedchildren.com/domestic-affairs/2013/07/pedophiles-to-seek-same-rights-as-gays-using-same-tactics-as-homosexual-lobby-report-says/2041#sthash.9DmiiGLu.dpuf

    Pedophiles
    to seek same rights as gays using same tactics as homosexual lobby,
    report says – See more at:
    http://misguidedchildren.com/domestic-affairs/2013/07/pedophiles-to-seek-same-rights-as-gays-using-same-tactics-as-homosexual-lobby-report-says/2041#sthash.9DmiiGLu.dpuf

    6.when you frequent bathhouse’s and willingly spread aids ,how can you demand anything that ever amounts to civil rights of any kind?,your whole lifestyle is a rollar coaster of recklessness,and it never matters to you all who you hurt,as long as you can get all the degrading pleasure you want,you willfully infect women some of you are married to,(you knew you were homosexual when you asked her to marry you,when bought the ring,,never mind your kids will be orphans when both you and the woman you infected die of aids .
    7 dan savage,who with many others want children of Christian parents removed from the home by liberal activist judges because why?,teaching your child the bible is wrong and is child abuse,this is what you people are trying to get passed in many states right now.(equal rights my foot,you want control of every aspect of human life as we know it.

    8.you force children as young as kindergarten to learn your filthy lifestyle,your books are now required reading in some of our schools,anal sex taught in the 6th grade?,don’t you tell me you are about equal rights,like the muslims you want it all your way,or no way at all,thus your really no better than terrorist yourself ,fact is you and the islamic movement use the same tactics,heres a question,muslims are chopping theheads off of homosexuals in some of these countries ,but not one peep from yall,ya know why,cause you know the muslims will burn every homosexual night club down they can until you apologize to allah,you go after Christians who love you,we don’t hate you,we hate that filthy sin you are bound by,but like i said not one word about islam,nope not one word,yall know better,,and doubt the bible all you want,twist its sacred words to your own liking all you want,let me tell you it will be to your peril,see i could care less about what you proclaim about being the new black,this whole argument is worthless,why,cause just like you trying to control society is futile at best,we don’t hate you,like God we hate the sin and love the person,but yur crazy if you think God will contiue to let you continue to do what you do without consequences ,why do you think so many of you are dead already,REPENT! JESUS IS COMING! HE COMING BACK AGAIN,now,that question,will someone up on here admit to the true agenda?

  • David Noah Parker

    this is so annoying to me. while I would never use the phrase “gay is the new black” cause its stupid…. gay people in this country do get discriminated against. I would expect a pastor to write something like this blog post, but just because the struggle or equality by the LBGT community doesn’t perfectly mirror the fight against slavery, one cannot therefore decide that the struggles are totally different and therefore that the LGBT people are not in need of protection. In the last 7 years right here in belling ham I have been spit on in my place of work, then the person that found out i was gay went and told not only my boss but all the shop owners in our area. I was then fired by my boss because despite my work ethic and knowledge “homosexuality is an abomination” My church right here in Bellingham when word got out kicked me off the worship team, made me chose between remaining part of my family or going into reparative therapy. for three years they tried to strip me to pieces just to get rid of something that would not come off. My family my mother left me when I was 13 because “no son of hers….” I have been beat till I was black and blue because I wasn’t the same. none of you know what its like to live in total fear that someone might see something in you that would give it away. the single biggest thing that distinguishes me from a person of color is that I can hide who I am. In most of this country there are 1100 benefits that I can’t access because of who I am, who I have always been, in 37 states I can be fired from my job if someone even suspects that I’m gay. in 17 other country’s I can be put to death or jailed till I die if someone finds out that I’m attracted to men. I get that its not the same as being black but that makes the dagger of discrimination no duller. I understand that most Christians probably the people who like this article are creeped out by homosexuals and believe that the bible condemns us but that does nothing to make me fear you less. each pastor or conservative politician that publicly calls for me to be stoned or bombed, or shipped away sends shivers down my spine and so does the desire by otherwise good people such as yourselves to sweep me under the rug because the LGBT problem isn’t a big deal to you.

  • Rev. Verdon Coleman

    I am both Black and Gay. So, for me, they are the same.

  • Scott Ferrell

    My Response to Thomason’s First Reason:

    Thomas is only half correct. The signs aren’t
    posted, but the behavior by some institutions across this nation is the same.

    Consider the lawsuits filed by gays against bakers in both Oregon and Colorado who refused to prepare wedding cakes for gay customers. The law is clear; any business that provides goods or services to the general public is prohibited from discriminating against their customers. Never-the-less, some business owners seem to believe that it’s ok to discriminate against members of the LGBTQ community. It’s not. Further, the assertion by some that a business owner has the right to discriminate based on his/her own Christian religious beliefs is invalid. Opening a business that serves the public is a

    choice. There is nothing in the Bible, and certainly nothing within the
    teachings and examples of Christ and His apostles, that requires a Christian to
    own or operate a business. Christians who choose to do so are required to
    comply with the law of the land. While not specifically referring to business
    owners, the apostle Paul makes clear in the 13th chapter of Romans
    that Christians are to be law-abiding rather than formenters of conflict.

    Additional examples of institutional discrimination against the LGBTQ community can be seen in the long history of police discrimination against gays. Remember Stonewall? Additionally, Members of the LGBTQ community have repeatedly been denied access to their loved ones in hospitals. There isn’t a sign, but there might as well be one on the ER door that reads “straight relatives only.” Do I need to continue, or are three

    examples enough?

    My Response to Thomason’s Second Reason:

    Members of the LGBTQ community have seen, and
    continue to see, gays turned out of their homes, even at a very young age, by
    parents who have decided that the child they once loved is now something less
    than human. It doesn’t get any more dehumanizing than that for a child or young
    adult. Additionally, gays and lesbians are routinely denied the right to adopt
    children based on the premise that children need both a father and a mother.
    That premise falls apart when one stops to consider the number of straight,
    single adults who have managed to obtain an adoption.

    I would like to know the names of the
    historians Thomason is referencing in his second statement. On and around
    Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, 2014, several writers pointed to the fact that
    King was devoted to addressing the current issue of jobs for African-Americans.
    The emphasis was not on a practice against African-Americans that had been
    discontinued roughly a century earlier. The emphasis of King’s work was on
    current discriminatory laws that prevented African-Americans from voting,
    receiving a quality education, obtaining decent housing and employment, and on
    other, similar topics relevant to the Civil Rights era.

    My Response to Thomason’s Third Reason:

    Thomason is correct in noting that the LGBTQ
    community has never endured a “Middle Passage,” but he is wrong in asserting
    that just because discrimination against gays has taken a different historical
    path that it is somehow less abhorrent or that the LGBTQ experience of discrimination
    is any less valid. Gays have endured persecution, beatings, and murder at the
    hands of straights for generations. As Triston Gianni King noted in his own
    response to Thomason, gays were also a target of Hitler’s Holocaust. Let us not forget that there are many in America today, including former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, who have voiced their belief that the gays should be rounded up and isolated on some island or in some other geographically isolated area. There are clearly some individuals who would like to see the LGBTQ community endure its own “Middle Passage.”

    My Response to Thomason’s Fourth Reason:

    Triston Gianni King beat me to the punch with his response, so I’ll just insert his quote here.

    “ [Thomason’s ] article completely disregards homosexual prosecution between the early 1900’s through the 60’s in the U.S. Not to mention that gays are barely considered citizens in the U.S. and can still be fired [in 29 states, and for no other reason than the fact that they are gay], unable to serve on a jury or as a teacher and cannot be married [in most states]….”

    My own addition to King’s Response: Thomason
    doesn’t need to lecture me (or anyone else, for that matter) on the fact that
    African-Americans were systematically denied the full enjoyment of citizenship
    in America. I’ve studied the African-American “citizenship and rights” cases
    (there are quite a few), and I am here to say that, in a number of the cases,
    there are similarities between the plight of African-Americans and the LGBTQ
    community. I can’t help but believe that Thomason has an agenda in singling out
    one case while excluding the rest. Moreover, there were other cases brought
    before the Court by members of other ethnic minority groups as well. It’s well
    worth the time to study those in light of current events.

    My Response to Thomason’s Fifth Reason:

    Thomason is completely incorrect in asserting that the LGBTQ community does not suffer from societal norms that allows and even promotes the physical abuse of gays for whatever reason. He hasn’t done his research. For those who do want to research this topic, I recommend The Meaning of Difference, 6th edition, by Rosenblum and Travis. The book is full of discussions and articles about the issues faced by Gays, Women, African-Americans, and other ethnic groups in America. Dozens of reputable scholars and academics have contributed articles to the book, and the research discusses the societal norms that confront each of the groups.

    Conclusion:

    Thomason has fallen into the trap of trying to compare the discrimination against one group to that of another group, and deciding that the experience of one group is more valid than the other. It’s a childish contest. Thomason’s article adds nothing to the discussion of discrimination or current events in the United States, and offers no solutions to help either group move forward.

  • SamuelRossLee

    Why the need to constantly address how a people who were/are clearly discriminated against have NOT been discriminated against? WE, African Americans, seem to be more interested in DENYING the discrimination of homosexuals than in fighting against our own. Why is that?

    What, exactly, are we protecting? Will we lessen the discrimination against African Americans by showing that others were not discriminated against exactely the same way we were/are?

    Do the claims of similarities to the history of African-American made by the gay community go to far? Yes, the often do. But, if Dr. king’s claim that “injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere” is true, them injustice in any form is similar to injustice in dissimilar forms.

    Said another way, why should we care, utimately, what form the injustice takes or took? Our focus should be on end it in all of it forms, not fighting for supremacy of the most discriminated against.

    • Marcelis L. Muriel

      I think you raised questions you assume are clear cut answers, but aren’t. For example “why shoud we care…the injustice takes?”. Well, simply put, the end of the gay struggle is not the end of the black struggle. The comparison does 2 things. 1) It implies that blacks are enjoying a standard greater than gays, or at least have more freedom in this country (after their supposed “victory” in the civil rights movement) and 3) it implies that the injustice of homosexuals is the greatest injustice of the country. Now, why should we care about those implications? Because neither of them are true. Blacks “enjoy” the same of discrimination as gays do. Yet, somehow, when people champion better issues for blacks, like trayvon, it is looked at as superficial and “why are they still complaining”. Check the catalogues of deaths recently? How many suspiscous black children died compared to people of the LGBT community. How many “stop and frisks” are done in NY because a person is gay vs. black. Simply put, black people should care, because it shouldn’t matter if gays get their “justice” if we keep having “trayvon martin’s” and “Jordan Davis’s”. I’m not saying gays don’t deserve justice, but this comparison deserves critique, and it is getting its just due, don’t try to make it sound unfair on people to question something that only appears true on a surface level. It’s not a question of “who’s discriminated more?” but rather, “Are the gays just using black people to push an agenda, without black people’s well being in mind?” Because that is exactly how it appears.

  • LT

    It would be helpful to remember another key fact, and that is that homosexuality is sin; being black is not. There alone lies the difference. People who act in homosexual ways should be treated with dignity and respect, but they should also learn to treat themselves that way, and to abandon destructive lifestyles. Until the prejudice ends, people will continue down these paths of self-destruction, not realizing that there is actual hope.

    People who act in homosexual ways are not discriminated against in any meaningful fashion. In fact, it is not even a topic that should enter the discussion at any level.

    • aurrevoirshoshanna

      1) People who don’t believe in the bible generally don’t believe homosexuality is a sin. So it’s hardly a ‘fact’ and just because you believe it doesn’t make it so.

      2) There is a difference between the constitution and the bible. One is legal and the other is religious.

      3) This country is founded on religious freedom. We have a choice of what we believe. The Bible should run the country no more than the Koran should and they both should have NO say in legal matters. The Constitution is what matters and the constitution does not say homosexuality is a sin.

      It really isn’t your place to determine whether or not the lifestyle is destructive. Unless you are gay and you’ve personally experience a destructive lifestyle.

      ‘People who act in homosexual ways are not discriminated against in any meaningful fashion’. So gays not having the right to marry in the US is negligible to you? Perhaps you don’t think blacks should have that right either?

      So the gays being tortured and killed in Russia and Uganda is not meaningful to you? Perhaps you do not think that lynching and the slave trade were meaningful either?

      Do you even realize what you are saying? Not only is it incorrect but it’s heartless.

      • Marcelis L. Muriel

        You’re overreacting. True, perhaps his phrasing of his position was a little ….insensitive. But honestly, in America, people who are apart of the LGBT community aren’t discriminated against in any meaningful fashion. There is no “right to marry”. All male citizens had the right to marry a female and vice versa. The issue wasn’t so much “giving the gays a right” as it was “what is the definition of marriage”. That’s not the same thing. In addition, most things discriminatory are covered by Civil Rights Act in “sexual orientation”. I get it. “Gay” is still looked at as “wrong”. Its still a common derogatory term. I agree that that needs to change. However, “black” in many places, is still a derogatory term (or its connotation carries that weight). AND blacks had to fight for 400 years to get to that point. The two simply aren’t comparable. As for Russia and Uganda, that’s as much political and societal as it is religous for those countries. It isn’t your place to challenge that. In America, LT’s comment might have ignored feelings, but that doesn’t make it incorrect.

      • LT

        1) The fact someone doesn’t believe something doesn’t determine it’s truth. Something is true when it conforms to reality, not when it is believed. Homosexuality is a sin whether you believe it or not.

        2) There is a difference between the constitution and the Bible. I didn’t address the constitution. There are other, more important, things.

        3) You do have religious freedom and you can believe what you want. But as I said, that won’t make it true. The Constitution is not what matters in the bigger sense.

        I am not determining that homosexuality is destructive. That was determined long before me by a more qualified Judge.

        People who act in homosexual ways are not denied the right to marry. They can marry, just like everyone else.

        As for people who act in homosexual ways being killed, I plainly said they should be treated with dignity and respect. They should not be killed. Period. And those who kill them are guilty of murder.

        Yes, I know what I am saying. It is well rooted in science, in philosophy, and in reality. It is not new in the least. It is the historic position of civilized society.

        I would encourage you to (1) read more closely to see what I actually said so you can stop making things up, and (2) study reality. It will help you greatly.

  • Rob

    Great article. I was at a Civil Rights Symposium yesterday and an attendee asked why it is that gay rights have been experiencing so much more progress than other civil rights issues. The answer to that is a big reason why gay was never the new Black. A lot of the advocates in the gay rights movement are white men. White men who still have had more privilege than almost all other groups and who are not used to being told “you can’t do that.” Nothing against them for their background, but they are out in full force because they have had a much different psychological experience than any other minority.

  • Ethan Fang

    It’s true that LGBT people will never know the horrors of what it was like to be black back in the day. But it’s the principle that matters, that they seem to be treated different than anyone else. But honestly who gives a shit about what LGBT people do anyway. Like deadass, just let them do what they want, it’s not like it affects you at all. Why do people care so much what other people do? I dont get why this is such a big issue and why people are throwing such a huge sissy fit. Seems pretty immature to me. I see people spewing all this crap about how its sinful and whatever, but let the one who is without sin cast the first stone amiright? Everyone needs to chill outtttttt

  • Beacon da Gatekeeper

    THIS ARTICLE IS SO TRUE !!!!AND THE GAYS ARE SO LOST…YALL WILL NEVER BE HELD IN THE SAME RESPECT AS THE BLACK COMMUNITY…WE BUILT THIS COUNTRY..BLED AND DIED BECAUSE OF OUR SKIN COLOR…THE INSTITUTIONAL RACISM OF 300 YEARS OF SLAVERY,STILL AFFECT MY COMMUNITY TIL THIS DAY…11 MILLION OF MY ANCESTORS DIED IN THIS TRANS-ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE…THROUGH JIM CROW LAWS THAT INSTITUTIONALLY FORBID THE EDUCATION AND ALL-AROUND BETTERMENT OF A WHOLE RACE!!!!!!AND YALL BUTT-HOLE BANDITS WANT TO EVEN THINK THAT ITS SIMILAR?! WAKE UP!!!!!AND PRAY TO THE LORD TO BE DELIVERED FROM YOUR ISSUE JUST LIKE I DO!!!!I KNOW THAT IM SAVED BY GRACE…AND I DONT MAKE EXCUSES FOR MY SIN!!!!!!!!I JUST TAKE IT TO THE KING…DO THE SAME !!!!!THIS GAY AGENDA IS SO OVER-EXPOSED AND THE SLEEPING GIANT THAT IS THE CHRISTIAN NATION …IS AWAKENING!!!!!!#JESUSISREAL

  • DarkSideoftheMoon

    To the points above.

    1. Not “seeing” signs. Yes there are no physical “signs”, but LGBT persons have been discriminated in housing, employment and service for many years. For example the case of a christian baker who would not service a gay couple. No physical “sign”, but the refusal of service reeks of “heterosexual only.” (http://tinyurl.com/qgj8dpy)

    2. Division of families. For many years, persons coming out as gay have been kicked out of their homes for being gay because people believe their “own offspring is an abomination.” This happens all too often. (http://prospect.org/article/thrown-away-being-gay)

    3. Slave trade. Just because it is not shown in the mainstream, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen. The sex slave trade is not confined to heterosexual slaves. (http://tinyurl.com/odmxgq7)

    4. No they will not be considered non-citizens, but they do not have full rights of citizens. Full citizens are protected when employed, can marry, can adopt children. LGBT, in many US states do not have full rights as heterosexuals. Some say they are “second-class citizens.”

    5. Violence against LGBT is not a societal norm? The PRESIDENT of Zimbabwe, last year, threatened to behead LGBT persons (http://tinyurl.com/lsdxhst). In 2011, the highest number of LGBT murders were recorded (http://tinyurl.com/buxt2zk).

    So, yes the struggles of LGBT are different from struggles of African Americans, which are different from the struggles of women, which are different from the struggles of the disabled, the elderly, and the list goes on. This thought that African Americans have some type of monopoly on civil rights is so selfish. Everyone has struggles, everyone has adversity, people from all walks of life have been killed, beaten and hurt trying to get their rights. Blacks don’t get a gold medal for their struggle.